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AoS NEW *rumor*

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Logan8054, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. Tyranitar
    Ripperdactil

    Tyranitar Well-Known Member

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    @ArtoriusaurusRex @Erta Wanderer yeah that's true, I guess I just wasn't impressed with saurus warriors in the early games I tried them out so I gave up on them awhile ago. Granted I never tried the battalions out but I've mainly been playing starborne and knight heavy KC lists
     
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  2. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    Out of all Coherency seems like a blunt copy-paste from 40k without considering differences in systems.

    I cannot imagine how they tested it and decided "yeah, thats okay". Melee alreadt was in dire situation and they punched it one more time.

    It more or less worked in 40k, because 40k had less hordes to begin with. But more importantly, it don't have weapon ranges. It is quite easy to get all 10 Sydonian Dragoons in melee, but getting 10 saurus knights - almost impossible without losing coherency.
     
  3. ArtoriusaurusRex
    Temple Guard

    ArtoriusaurusRex Well-Known Member

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    Weirdly enough this new AOS coherency rule is more restrictive than 40K coherency
     
  4. Kilvakar
    Bastiladon

    Kilvakar Well-Known Member

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    Who knows? They might just change melee combat entirely to be like 40k. They seem to want those two games to be as close as possible, lol!
     
  5. xoid
    Ripperdactil

    xoid Well-Known Member

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    The only way I can see to get 10 Knights all into combat under the new cohesion rules is to be attacked from all sides.
     
  6. Dread Saurian
    Bastiladon

    Dread Saurian Well-Known Member

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    Then honestly what was the point of creating AOS?
     
  7. ArtoriusaurusRex
    Temple Guard

    ArtoriusaurusRex Well-Known Member

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    Maybe weapon ranges will represent the range that a unit can fight from behind the first rank. 1" range meaning a model has to be within 1" of the "engaged" row to also fight.


    Now that's a nice fool's hope
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
  8. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Basically 40k.
    Once 40k was shortly explained with "fantasy in space".
    I don’t want AoS to become "40k, but fantasy"
     
  9. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

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    To be honest what confuses me more is screening. What exactly is the point of a 10 man screen if they need to be organised into 2 ranks? They'l barely cover any ground. Like what exactly is the idea? I assume they were simply trying to deal with some of the sillier screens, like putting a unit of 40 skinks in a big circle and screening your entire army that way. But this seems to be swinging wildly in the other direction.
     
  10. NecridHydra
    Temple Guard

    NecridHydra Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, sometimes I'm on the worse side, but think this that way. Units, unless stated otherwise in a massive FaQ, will continue on their current unit sizes and horde bonuses won't apply. Which means, Saurus wont have 2 attacks on their clubs/spears and Skinks will barely shoot. Unit size for both of them is currently capped to 30, as you can only invest 2 reinforcement points on battleline units.

    I'll talk about Seraphon, as they're the only army I play. Almost evey unit we use to deploy is paying extra cost. Sallys x3, Terradons x2, Kroxis x2, Skinks x4 or screens of MSU (which are now worse due to coherency), Saurus x2 or x4... And so on. Meanwhile our efficiency went down.

    The last game I played was against Vampires. I used a FoS list with 3 Sallys and a blob of 40 Skinks with a Priest and Starpriest. My friend had 2 units of 5 Blood Knigts; one of them faced my Sallys and the other one my unit of Skinks. The unit facing the Salamanders had 3 casualties on first turn and the one facing the Skinks had almost 2 casualties and 2 wounds. Next turn, he charged my Blob and I survived long and good to hold the objetive they were in and the Sallyes died because a double charge (my bad) but not without wipping one more Knight.

    My point is, what do we have, if we are not longer allowed to have a blob, to counter things like these? Math wise, a MSU Blood Knights deals 10.76 Wound to 4+ save (any behemoth or Saurus MSU). Yeah, we can screen the hell out of our army, double and quadruple screens for the same price until a Stegadon comes and kills the 5 Knighs next turn, but are we playing AoS or chess?

    I know this is a strategy game and most of the time I play like chess, sacrificing a unit hoping RNGesus bless me unscathered and not a rival's double turn so I can counter him next time.

    TL:DR. There are better units in MSU than others and that´s a fact. We barely have something to counter an elite unit like a Varanguard or Blood Knigts 1vs1.
     
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  11. Erta Wanderer
    Skink Priest

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    you don't need to double rank you can just triangle cap the line
     
  12. Moulinglacia
    Saurus

    Moulinglacia Well-Known Member

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    So i have a quick question. Why are we so doom and gloom about our screens.

    We can still deploy skink screens in a line as its written for the same reason as to why 25mm bases can attack with 1 inch weapons in two lines. 1 inch extends further then a 25 inch base. So we can still be in a line and maintain coherency on skinks.

    It sucks for saurus but screens isnt really what they were used for to begin with
     
  13. Erta Wanderer
    Skink Priest

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    i don't know really the coherency rules are fine won't even couse problems most of the time. even with 32mm you can cap the ends so you can still put them in a line just like always just 2 shorter then we used to.
    even in melee pile ins it isn't going to matter since most of the time you want to be fighting 2 ranks deep and if you can't fight 2 deep you can sacrafice 1 model and just do what we always have. this change barely matters in the long run
     
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  14. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

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    You mean like this?

    upload_2021-6-12_13-36-32.png

    The issue with a formation like this is that the moment you suffer any losses you're forced to break coherency.
    Or at least, I don't really see a way to remove 1 model from this and still have the unit be coherent under the new rule.


    It also doesn't help that it looks rather silly and unnatural, though that's a minor issue in comparison.
     
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  15. Erta Wanderer
    Skink Priest

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    i do mean like that and the answer is to take models from the middle not the ends as even with the gaps they would still be 1" from each other. or loose 1 model an have done with it. or if they drop them bellow 5 it wont matter
     
  16. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

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    not the ends as even with the gaps they would still be 1" from each other[/QUOTE]
    1) That only works with skinks and their tiny base. Stuff like saurus can't pull this off with their bigger bases
    2) It's still problematic if your losses happen an an inconvenient manner to multiple attacks. E.g. Lose 2 models during shooting, then lose an additional 1in melee (more of a concern for units with better stats than it is for skinks)
    3) It still means you cover significantly less ground with an MSU of skinks. Going from a line with 10 models with 0.98" bases with 9 1" gaps between them to just 8 models with 0.98" bases and no gaps. That's still a pretty major cut-back.
    4) A honeycombed rank still allows the line to be slightly longer, as it allows the use of 5 models and 4 gaps in the frontline, plus a model in the backline and part of its gap (though even this is a significant reduction compared to the original 20" we could almost reach)

    So it's still a fairly massive nerf to screens. And basic MSU screens do not seem like they are the main culprit abusing daisy-chaining.
     
  17. xoid
    Ripperdactil

    xoid Well-Known Member

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    I'm not following, where can you remove a model a still have the unit be cohesive?

    Looking at that image I can't find anywhere that won't break unit cohesion, and from there I can't see a way to get it back until you are down to 5 models and the rules change.
     
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  18. Erta Wanderer
    Skink Priest

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    no thats not what i meant. when you have a model out of cohesion at the end of a turn that model dies and thats it it doesn't daisy chain down the line you just loose one
     
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  19. xoid
    Ripperdactil

    xoid Well-Known Member

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    But it does, the new rule says you must remove models, one at a time, until the unit is back in cohesion.
     
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  20. Erta Wanderer
    Skink Priest

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    why on earth are you trying to screen with saurus?
    again why are you screening with saurus? they aren't ment for that. guard and knights don't care they are both 5 or less and nothing else in the book can be used as a screen.
    margenaly yes but onlu by about 2" in a 8-15" line so what ever
    in what way is a 10" double line longer then a 16" one? and thats if you do the dumb thing and streack them so far apart you can let modles walk beetween them. otherwise it's a 5-6" to a 9" line
     

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