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AoS NEW *rumor*

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Logan8054, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. Lizerd
    Skink Priest

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    thats a fat rip, looking forward to them lol
     
  2. xoid
    Terradon

    xoid Well-Known Member

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    Possibly delayed longer then that. Shipping costs have gone nuts in general, and apparently GW is having pricing issues with suppliers.
     
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  3. Tilorn91
    Saurus

    Tilorn91 Member

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    New batch of updates. Cogs nerfed to the ground, pinned by two units with touching bases no longer prevents movement in pile-in, all abilities that negate wounds or mortals seem to be now called Wards and only one roll is allowed (if I am not mistaken in understanding?) and Sylvaneth update brought nothing where I expected to see a fix of their missing teleport ability on the Wildwoods.

    EDIT: The Sylvaneth update is a stealthy one to me, they just removed the line saying that the teleport is on the terrain instead of the allegiance ability, so I guess their teleport now works again.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
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  4. Just A Skink
    Salamander

    Just A Skink Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I assumed GW would eventually change things like the Astrolith to being a ward save. Cogs sort of goes back to just affecting one caster like it did in 2.0, yes? Still lame though.
     
  5. Jason839
    Bastiladon

    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    under the new wording of the faq on wards, would selfless protector still let guard get a ward save ? im leaning to yes because the wording is that the wound isnt negated, just the allocation is changed? what do you guys think
     
  6. Carnikang
    Carnasaur

    Carnikang Well-Known Member

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    Wording is such that you MUST allocate that wound the the Guard. Ward saves are taken before allocation. At least if my groggy self is remembering correctly after the Ward Whiplash

    At least they fixed stuff. Bummed that Guard can't take a ward save against the damage they intercept.

    But it is what it is.
     
  7. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Well, the ward roll is made before the wound is allocated, so for now the astrolith bearer still stacks
     
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  8. Dread Saurian
    Bastiladon

    Dread Saurian Well-Known Member

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    Erta and wizardlizard released their new vid on YouTube and discussed this. Bodyguard saves do not get ward saves I guess
     
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  9. Carnikang
    Carnasaur

    Carnikang Well-Known Member

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    Does this address the Astrolith Bearer? If so, it effectively makes the Astrolith Bearer hand out ward saves.
    I wish they would have added more to the answer aside from just "Yes".
     
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  10. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    IMO Revifying works 100% and is not a ward.

    exhibit 1:
    Core Rules: Wards happen before the wound is allocated

    Cattura 1.JPG

    exhibit 2:
    the new FAQ don't modify the timing of wards. they still happen before the wound is allocated, FAQ specifies that similar abilities are wards too

    Cattura 2.JPG

    ehibit 3:
    what is the ability used as example in the FAQ? let's read it:

    Cattura 3.JPG

    Yeah, it triggers before you allocate a wound. As Wards work.

    exhibit 4:
    now, let's take a look at the Astrolith Bearer: it triggers when you allocate the wound. not before.

    Cattura 4.JPG
     
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  11. Tyranitar
    Ripperdactil

    Tyranitar Well-Known Member

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    I think the intent is pretty clear that GW wants only one roll and anything that seems similar to a damage prevention roll is now a ward save. Unfortunately they're exceedingly incompetent when it comes to writing clear and consistent rules and instead of elaborating they simply wrote "yes" in the faq. The problem is there's several different wordings for what's effectively the same thing, but they've only addressed one specific wording. I know TO's are all ruling that you get one ward save, period. And we all know what is intended to be ward saves, so I'm not going to play with ward stacking of any sort.
     
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  12. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    that's true, but GW it's also exceptionally inconsistent with all the rules that go toward a certain direction, then a new model comes out and break those same principles.
     
  13. Carnikang
    Carnasaur

    Carnikang Well-Known Member

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    True, but the question answered asked if abilities that negate wounds and MW are Wards.

    The last sentence of Revivifying Engines states that it can negate Wounds and MW.

    Seems cut and dry.

    Edit: That would mean that the timing does change as it is a ward. Its a warscroll from last edition among many that was not FAQ'd but clearly was meant to be included.
     
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  14. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Mmm...
    I was focusing on timing because the core rules says that wards happen before allocation, but you may be right.
    The effects of those abilities are the same.
     
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  15. Jason839
    Bastiladon

    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    Here is my thought process. In the new FAQ under the errata section wards are defined as follows.

    14.3 – Wards
    Replace the paragraph with the following:
    ‘Some abilities allow you to roll a dice to negate a wound or mortal
    wound. Abilities of this type are referred to as wards, and the dice
    roll is referred to as a ward roll. Unless stated otherwise, the ward
    roll is made before the wound is allocated to the model in question.
    Up to 1 ward roll can be made for each wound or mortal wound. If
    the ward roll is successful, the wound or mortal wound is negated
    and has no effect on the model.

    So astrolith bearer's revivifying energies would follow the bold part of stating otherwise that the ward would be applied when allocated and not before.

    The question on the FAQ about wards was as follows

    Q: If a player makes a successful dice roll to negate a wound or mortal
    wound
    , and this triggers an effect that forces a wound or mortal
    wound to be allocated to a different unit (as per, for example, ‘Sworn
    Protectors’ in Battletome: Fyreslayers or ‘The Armour of Morkar’ in
    Battletome: Slaves to Darkness), can an attempt be made to negate
    that additional wound or mortal wound if an effect would allow a
    player to do so?
    A: No. Wounds and mortal wounds allocated in this way cannot
    be negated.

    Since selfless protectors does not negate the wound or mortal wound itself, and instead only changes allocations, this ruling does not apply to it. So you would change the wound allocation to the saurus guard, who would then apply the ward save from the astrolith bearer because the ward granted by the bearer follows a different timing rule.

    At least thats how it seems to work to me Rules as Written.
     
  16. Carnikang
    Carnasaur

    Carnikang Well-Known Member

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    Afraid not. RAW in the FAQ says otherwise if you read the full text and use it in full. It clearly says you've negated it from the first unit by putting it on the second. One roll.

    Lots of people have looked at it and it's pretty clear. Bodyguard rules are psuedo-wards. At least that's the intent from my understanding.

    Edit: but I'd be happy if we could still save Slann with Guards and fnp guards. I'm tired, and a bit dejected when it comes to GW rules writing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
  17. Tilorn91
    Saurus

    Tilorn91 Member

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    To me, it is greatly obvious that the new Ward rule encompasses both our Astrolith, and all the other abilities of that ilk.
     
  18. Kilvakar
    Bastiladon

    Kilvakar Well-Known Member

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    I believe it's meant to, but I can also see that according to RAW you could argue that the language allows it to work after passing wounds to guards. I'm guessing some people will keep using the rule the way we have been doing up till now, but it will probably be FAQ'd at some point.
     
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  19. Putzfrau
    Skink Chief

    Putzfrau Well-Known Member

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    My question is just why make this weird specification where only the fyreslayers bodyguard save doesn't work? What's the point?
     
  20. Dread Saurian
    Bastiladon

    Dread Saurian Well-Known Member

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    Gw trying to make things intentionally difficult for their players?
     

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