AoS NEW *rumor*

While I absolutely agree that we need new models, I'm still going to be slightly disappointed that I bought over 80 Saurus Warriors and around 120 Skinks if they come out with new, good-looking infantry models. I know Kroxigors and Hunting Packs need an update as well, but I have a lot of 3rd party Kroxigors and Salamanders so I'm good there.

 

Lol. I agree, even though I don't have anywhere near your numbers. However, this reaction is one of the suppositions I've heard (I think even on this site) as to why GW hasn't updated Seraphon or Skaven. With such long running armies virtually every player has all of the models for it. So there's not a big monetary push for GW to update. Regardless, I would be excited to see new Lizards based on the new models GW has put out, like the Starblood Stalkers and Lizardmen Blood Bowl team.

 

even just updates to finecast models would be appreciated,

 

I know model speculation has been brought up repeatedly in this thread, but I think it's interesting.

I agree that GW has options with Seraphon. Personally, I'm 50/50 on feral dinos, but it does seem like something GW could do right now. I'm sure they could make some cooler looking Kroxigors and Chameleon Skinks, based on what I've seen in Underworlds & Blood Bowl. A new Slann/Starseer kit, or individual models, would be VERY cool. Each of those units is showing up in lots of lists. GW could even resculpt the Sunblood, Eternity Warden, Astrolith and Scar-vet on CO, I guess.

IF GW will make Saurus more viable (and other units on 32mm bases) then I think the most logical update is what we saw with Slaves to Darkness. Basically, a redone Start Collecting box with Saurus Warriors, Knights on Cold Ones, and an updated Scar-vet on a new mid-sized dino (or just cooler looking Cold One/Horned One). Perhaps they could even add 3-5 updated Guard to the box? Unfortunately, that would remove the Carno from the boxed set and make it only available at the premium price (but I assume that would make GW happy). Then we would have SC: Skinks and SC: Saurus.

GW loves its centerpiece models. How about a new big dino like a long-neck/Thunder Lizard or an official plastic Dread Saurian? Or they could make a new named Slann hero on Stegadon (a la Mazdamundi). However, I am a little perplexed that GW both made Kroak a cool new model and reduced his table play at the same time, at least for tournaments. I guess they were banking on the model selling just because of the "impulse buy" and as a model for painters? Seriously, Kroak shows up in so few lists that I didn't bother b/c I can just proxy. I like the model, but the price tag is a little high.

EDIT: Obviously, updated Salamanders and maybe even Razordons!

 

I got roughly the same amount of skinks as you

 

I honestly hope some books do keep some of the more unique sub allegiance breakdowns they have. I really like how seraphon has two distinct halves and would be bummed if they lost that. Same with their general play strategy, I'd really hate for them to just become another "has good scrolls" army.

I guess we have plenty of time to find out tho, so we will see how some of the other 3.0 books shake out between now and then.

 

I know it's a lot, lol! But when I got into the hobby I went all-in on searching Ebay and sites like TheTrollTrader for cheaper, second-hand models, since there was no way I could afford to buy everything at GW prices. I think the only models I've bought directly from them were Kroak and the Starblood Stalkers, just because I wanted to support new Lizardmen models. Since I'm more into the gaming side of the hobby, having already assembled or even already painted models isn't a big deal for me (as long as the paint job is good)

While other armies like Tzeentch had dominated the game for longer than we did, and armies like KO dominated it harder than we did, at the end of 2nd edition Lord Kroak was the single most hated *unit* in the entire game. GW had probably been working on his new model for a while, but with all of the internet rage about how game-breakingly ridiculously OP Kroak was, we were all expecting an overall nerf to his stats even when his new model was announced. I'm just surprised he made it through so many FAQs without getting nerfed to the ground...

I really hope they keep the sub allegiance abilities as well. I think others were pointing out that judging from the new Stormcast, Orruk and Nurgle battletomes, it looks like sub-allegiances basically give you one bonus thing in AoS 3. So for example, I could see them doing something like Fangs of Sotek: Skinks get a 6in pre-game move. Dracothion's Tail: Deploy half your army in reserve. Koatl's Claw: Saurus get +1 to hit on charge. Thunder Lizards: Stegs are battleline and monsters get +2 wounds. No more unique command abilities, no more double-firing bastiladons, no more Skinks shooting and retreating. And of course no more unique command traits or artifacts.

That would suck, but it's in line with what they're giving other sub-allegiances, unfortunately. So either our buff stacking needs to be moved other areas like the core subfaction abilities, or we will suffer massively without an overall stat buff. I like the difference between Starborne and Coalesced, especially since Coalesced has gotten more viable. And I think that they will keep these basic subfactions. But if they follow the same examples they've shown so far, they're going to take a lot of the flavor out of the Constellations, and without the specific buffs that those subfactions give out our army will be nerfed hard.

What they could and should do if they plan to go that route is make our base Seraphon and subfaction abilities much better. Since their way to try and counter save-stacking is giving everyone and their mother's aunt's cousin ways to dump loads of mortal wounds, they'll need to do something similar to us. Maybe making all Coalesced units do a mortal wound on 6s to hit, get +1 rend on all weapons, while also allowing Scaly Skin to apply to mortal wounds would make up for losing the special abilities of Thunder Lizards, while also making Saurus viable again since our "bucket of dice" attack style of our infantry would actually be good again. Allowing Starborne to accumulate conjuration points faster would go a long way. And they could also do something like adding +1 to casting for all Starborne wizards or some other way of improving their magic.

Of course, that's all assuming that they want to keep our abilities and playstyle the same while also not buffing our base stats much if at all. They could go for a complete overhaul. I think it would be unnecessary, but if they really are planning on releasing a lot of updated models then I could definitely see them going for a complete rework that might unfortunately end up being OP to help sell said models...

Yes! Give us a mounted wizard that's actually good at his job! (Also buff the poor Troglodon, but mounted Slann is absolutely needed!)

 

That's a lot to get to only give up some command abilities, traits, and artefacts.

Our base Allegiance abilities is what already makes us so strong, not the command traits and artefacts we'd be hypothetically losing.

But I still hear what you're saying overall. I think the fact the books have basically 0 command abilities is probably going to have a much bigger impact on what our future books look like.

I'll be interested to see if all 3.0 books continue to follow these same trends. It feels pretty limiting bit who knows!

Either way you're right, the way our book is set up is quite different than 3.0 books have been.

 

What I think is more likely than giving us all those bonuses is that they remove a lot of stuff, but make our unit stats better in return. Especially if they release new models at the same time. So we end up with the same base allegiance and sub allegiance abilities for Starborne and Coalesced, but with much better units overall. So our playstyle is more or less the same, but we end up with less tricks up our sleeve but better units to make up for it.

My speculation on all the extra bonuses was only assuming that they took away Constellation abilities *and* didn't buff our units in return. But definitely the trend of having few to no unique allegiance command abilities is a big deal for us, since 3 out of 4 of our Constellations have a unique CA that they rely heavily on to perform well. I'm wondering if they move some of those to some of the warscrolls instead?

 

Of course they will. But only 3 months before they reintroduce super powerfull unique artifacts again

I mean, there'll be plenty of people who'l buy it just cuz it's new and shiny. Even if they don't technically need new skinks.
Especially when our more derpy models are concerned (so basicly all minor saurus)

 

I'd argue that Seraphon are in an awkward spot with regards to subfactions, in no small part due to how convoluted it becomes when you factor in the Starborne/Coalesced distinction. By their very nature, Starborne and Coalesced function more akin to how Ironjawz and Bonesplitters do rather than as your average subfaction, just with the added laziness of using the same units and models for both.

It's like they've got a foot in the door to be their own subfactions, but at the same time they don't want to commit because there are subfactions (the constellations) below them.

In all honesty, GW would be doing itself a service, if a fairly boring one, by doubling up on the warscrolls - one set each for Starborne and Coalesced - and maybe keeping a couple as universal like Slann and some Skink infantry/hero units. Done properly, this could simultaneously remove the rules bloat from the two Seraphon factions, directly improve Seraphon units at face value (especially where previous rules gave flat bonuses to stats), and allow Starborne and Coalesced to stand on their own without being burdened by the costs of the other.

As for subfactions, I agree that we need more of them if we are going to go this route. As a partial solution, many of the current ones we have can afford to be split and still be able to function (i.e. Since Thunder Lizards keeps getting brought up, I'd say that new!TL can keep its +2 wounds for monsters, while a new subfaction can be adapted from the magitech or artillery aspect of old!TL).

 

Would like us to have a subfaction that is for starborne but buffs a non hero Behemoth with say a 5+ fnp or something odd like it gives a non hero Behemoth ethereal

 

Another thing that came to mind was the issue with Saurus meta. Picking up from my previous post, I'd definitely say that Coalesced Saurus Warriors (and perhaps even Coalesced Saurus Knights as well) should get an additional wound... but not the benefit of a Scaly-Skin-type rule. Saurus Guard on the other hand should always have a better claim to resiliency as elite bodyguards anyway, which is why it would make sense for their Coalesced version to have one such rule baked into their warscroll.

 

i keep saying this but a extra wound isn't what warriors need. they are already decent tanks their problem is everything else.

 

Might not be what they need, but it's what they deserve. The whole warscroll needs attention.

I don't want to live in a world where naked dwarves and skinny elves with hammers have two wounds but a massive dino supersoldier does not.

I have no doubt they could be serviceable with just 1 wound. But it wouldn't match the fluff when compared with other infantry and that I cannot abide.

 

Precisely especially how crocs and alligators tend to keep on even if they get an arm or a leg or a chunk of their jaw ripped of. They just keep on being a murderlog