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AoS NEW *rumor*

Vallis said:
That said, we will find new loopholes to min-max certain units. For example, a Koatl's Claw Scar-Vet on Carnosaur general with Prime Warbeast and the Bloodrage pendant is pretty freaking deadly. Once in Frenzy, going solo against an unwounded opponent, he averages 20 wounds against a 4+ save, or 16 against a 3+ save, with no buffs from other units or command abilities. He gets in a few more wounds on the charge. If you're playing Path to Glory and you add in a Sacred Spawning of Sotek, even moreso. Then he's dealing 24 wounds against 4+ and 19 against 3+, with just the Carnosaur's Frenzy ability.
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Yeah I think the carnosaurs are definitely costed around their potential from traits and artifacts/buffs and their boost from being coalesced which is a double edged sword I guess.

I’m not a rules genius for 3.0 (I still have yet to actually play it in practice, so I could be wrong about anything I assume) but I have a feeling that thunder lizards expects the utility of 2 rampages to be more important than actually giving all your monsters 2 rampages, it seems like a pretty decent tool to be able to use a utility based rampage like Roar or the troglodon stench increase and then also be able to throw down some extra wounds or eat a character. It’s just that koatl’s claw gives a pretty significant boost to some of our best units and outclasses the utility
 
Vallis said:
For example, a Koatl's Claw Scar-Vet on Carnosaur general with Prime Warbeast and the Bloodrage pendant is pretty freaking deadly.
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That brings up a good question. Will the mount traits from White Dwarf still be legal to use? They are glaringly absent from our battletome... again :(
 
Kilvakar said:
That brings up a good question. Will the mount traits from White Dwarf still be legal to use? They are glaringly absent from our battletome... again
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I doubt the mount trait is legal now. It's sad that we don't have one. But I'm especially disappointed we didn't get any cool spacetime, dinosaurs or Aztec-themed endless spells.
 
Lambs and Lions said:
The sub-50% winrate has only been a thing in the past few months after yet another point hike. When our book came out 40 skinks were 240 points and salamanders were 80 points each. It was freaking insane. For the last 3 years, seraphon have consistently 5-0'd events so yeah people are going to think it's cheesy.
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No denying the book was absolutely cooked on release, but I'm referring to people who hold the same view even after the massive points nerfs from the last update.

I'm probably overreacting but being called a metachaser by a guy fielding Morathi and the Bowsnakes or a Teclis castle leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.
 
Vallis said:
I doubt the mount trait is legal now. It's sad that we don't have one. But I'm especially disappointed we didn't get any cool spacetime, dinosaurs or Aztec-themed endless spells.
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Very unfortunate, I agree. Even with the clear focus on casting in this new book, no faction-specific endless spells. But I also seriously doubt GW will release any new endless spells at all in the future.

PabloTho said:
No denying the book was absolutely cooked on release, but I'm referring to people who hold the same view even after the massive points nerfs from the last update.

I'm probably overreacting but being called a metachaser by a guy fielding Morathi and the Bowsnakes or a Teclis castle leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.
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People who chase the meta often like to rip on other people who they think are doing the same thing because they don't like the competition. They want to be the only one with the OP list :p
 
Togetic said:
Yeah I think the carnosaurs are definitely costed around their potential from traits and artifacts/buffs and their boost from being coalesced which is a double edged sword I guess.
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Yeah, GW has repeatedly stated that buffs are taken into account when deciding on costs, which regularly results in units being overpriced if you can't bring the required buffs to flesh it out.

Kilvakar said:
Very unfortunate, I agree. Even with the clear focus on casting in this new book, no faction-specific endless spells. But I also seriously doubt GW will release any new endless spells at all in the future.
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What where the last endless spells (or similar nonsense) they released? The incarnates?
 
Kilvakar said:

Very interesting take on the Coalesced side of the book. Cool to see @Putzfrau in the video!
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I was thinking this sounded pretty optimistic until Basil mentioned Coalesced is probably sitting in the 3-2 bracket at tournaments, perhaps with the occasional 4-1.

I think I agree that ducking a slann in Coalesced might be a good idea. Running a 45 wound tarpit of Aggradons up to pin on turn one does sound fun, much as I dislike the Primal Rage mechanic.
 
Sounds like even Putzfrau thinks the new book is just decent, not great but not bad. And basically says you'll have to be a really good player to be able to beat all the more recently updated armies with it.

As the shine of finally getting a range refresh wears off, I'm starting to think of our new book as a pretty significant nerf more and more. I don't think it's bad by any means, but even Putz is saying we'll have to wait for other armies to be nerfed before it's considered a good army, at least on the Coalesced side. I'm starting to agree with the people who said we got the B-team in the writing department. :P
 
Kilvakar said:
Sounds like even Putzfrau thinks the new book is just decent, not great but not bad. And basically says you'll have to be a really good player to be able to beat all the more recently updated armies with it.

As the shine of finally getting a range refresh wears off, I'm starting to think of our new book as a pretty significant nerf more and more. I don't think it's bad by any means, but even Putz is saying we'll have to wait for other armies to be nerfed before it's considered a good army, at least on the Coalesced side. I'm starting to agree with the people who said we got the B-team in the writing department. :p
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I honestly have to get a good laugh about other armies needing to be nerfed in order for Seraphon to be considered a good army, since that was virtually all of 3rd Edition up to this battletome's release.

I for one welcome the nerfs. To me, it means I don't have to feel guilty about playing an army that previously sucked the fun out of the game for my opponent through little to no deliberate input on my part (and it wasn't even an optimized army either, just a Thunder Lizard list built around a core of Saurus Warriors).
 
Lambs and Lions said:
I think we should wait until the faq comes out to really say how good we will be. If telepathic summoning let's you summon into combat we might have something very interesting.
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I personally think this is 100% an oversight and will be FAQd to the standard outside of 9 inches rule. But if it doesn't... well that actually makes Coalesced all of a sudden pretty op in a lot of situations.
 
Vallis said:
For example, a Koatl's Claw Scar-Vet on Carnosaur general with Prime Warbeast and the Bloodrage pendant is pretty freaking deadly.
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Just remember bloodrage only gives you +1 attack on the riders weapons, not all.


PabloTho said:
I was thinking this sounded pretty optimistic until Basil mentioned Coalesced is probably sitting in the 3-2 bracket at tournaments, perhaps with the occasional 4-1.

I think I agree that ducking a slann in Coalesced might be a good idea. Running a 45 wound tarpit of Aggradons up to pin on turn one does sound fun, much as I dislike the Primal Rage mechanic.
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Just wanted to clarify that Coach was the one who said 3-2 but i still largely agree... and that's okay!

This book is an extremely solid 3-2 book with definitely opportunity to be 4-1 or 5-0 without needing to rely on miracle luck or matchups. I just don't think it'll be like the last books height where you had a very forgiving army and very forgiving matchups.

Kilvakar said:
Sounds like even Putzfrau thinks the new book is just decent, not great but not bad. And basically says you'll have to be a really good player to be able to beat all the more recently updated armies with it.

As the shine of finally getting a range refresh wears off, I'm starting to think of our new book as a pretty significant nerf more and more. I don't think it's bad by any means, but even Putz is saying we'll have to wait for other armies to be nerfed before it's considered a good army, at least on the Coalesced side. I'm starting to agree with the people who said we got the B-team in the writing department. :p
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I think "solid" is how i would describe it. I do not think it is better than any of the last probably 6 or 7 books that have come out, but I also don't think its substantially worse outside a few of them.

I dont want people to think only good players will be able to win with this book. I think we'll have to wait for other books to be nerfed for this army to be a consistent 4-1 player without any mind to matchups. I'm not betting on this book winning an event without looking at the players.

I think starborne has a more obvious build, but its arguably more susceptible to bad matchups.

Anyways, glad people seemed to generally enjoy it. Hopefully it was entertaining!
 
Kilvakar said:
I personally think this is 100% an oversight and will be FAQd to the standard outside of 9 inches rule. But if it doesn't... well that actually makes Coalesced all of a sudden pretty op in a lot of situations.
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The way the spell is supposed to be played is, when your Slann is being attacked you summon a unit to help. If there is a 9" restriction then it is a worthless spell as once your Slann is being attacked you can't bring your summons in because the enemy is already too close. The problem with the spell is that we have multiple ways of casting through another unit.

The spell also doesn't say the unit can't move after being summoned so if we can cast through a spell portal but have to be 9" away we can still move Saurus 5" and then make a 4" charge with a +1 to charge.

If we are just teleporting 30 man blocks of buffed up Saurus into the enemy lines turn 1 I think we have a chance at being pretty good.
 
i will definitely try a koatl claw list with aggrodons and heavy saurus. maybe 2x3 or 1x6 aggrodons and at least 20 warriors.
i am not totally sold on the scar veteran on aggrodon. maybe i try him out, but he seems very pricely.
maybe he will pay of with his alpha roar and idk 9 aggrodons, on the other hand he costs 175points and 3 more aggrodons would be 210points.
so.... idk..... he gets his time in the sunlight one time and we will see
 
Putzfrau said:
Anyways, glad people seemed to generally enjoy it. Hopefully it was entertaining!
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Very entertaining and informative! You're right, the whole "Trog bomb" list with Starborne is more of the obvious pick, but it's definitely going to run into a lot of armies that just hard-counter it either due to shutting down spellcasting or just having too many bodies or big enough bodies that multiple d3 mortal wound blasts doesn't carry the day hard enough.

Putzfrau said:
I think "solid" is how i would describe it. I do not think it is better than any of the last probably 6 or 7 books that have come out, but I also don't think its substantially worse outside a few of them.
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I'd be curious which ones you think are substantially better and which ones are closer to ours in strength. (This is making me miss @Erta Wanderer and @Lizard Wizard's podcasts! I miss the strategies and meta discussions)
 
Putzfrau said:
Just remember bloodrage only gives you +1 attack on the riders weapons, not all.
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Are you sure? I see this is typically called out for weapons, but this is a pendant. I'll I can find in the rules is that "The bearer is the model to which an artefact of power has been given." (27.5.2)
 
Okay, huge realization!

So I have complained on here a few times that I was disappointed that the new Seraphon balletome did not include any endless spells, because I really wanted to see some cool space lizard, celestial, jungle, Aztechnology™ themed endless spells for our army. Since we didn't get that, I decided to see if I could reinvent the general endless spells with proxy models. For the emerald lifeswarm, a swarm of coatls. For Chronomantic Cogs, a orrery. So I decided to review the endless spells and see what else I could come up with. But in doing so, I think I found some deadly combos for the Coalesced.

The Coalesced Slann spell, the Earth Trembles, does D3 mortal wounds to each unit from any corner of the table to the caster on a 4+. Fortunately, the way it's worded, the Arcane Vassal ability means that you can also measure from any corner to any skink within 12" of the Slann or the Oracle on Trog. That's a lot more options, but still hard to pull off in a Coalesced army. Enter the Umbral Spellportal. A Slann with an Astrolith Bearer can drop that portal anywhere within 24" of itself or a vassal, and then draw a line from any corner to spellportal. That's just about any straight line you want! There's potential to hit a whole bunch of units.

But how do the rules play out when you combine the Umbral Spellportal with Telepathic Summons? Same thing! Telepathic Summons lets you return a unit to anywhere in the spell's range which is 9" (15" with the Astrolith) of the caster. But the Arcane Vassal ability lets you return the unit to any eligible skink wizard, and the Umbral Spellportal lets you pull the unit to just about anywhere you want! And at least until it's FAQ'd, that includes in easy charge range or in combat. Even if they fix it so it has to be 9" from any enemy, this combo is still huge!

Umbral Spellportal may have a spot on any of my Coalesced lists that includes a Slann with Telepathic Summons (including Kroak, who also has The Earth Trembles).

Edit: Oh, and in Starborne, the Spacefolder's Stave should work with the Soulscream Bridge.
 
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