8th Ed. New to the game, question about Ripperdactyls

[Matt]

If I put a Blot Toad marker on an enemy character will the marker also affect the unit he is with?
Presumably, if I put the marker on a unit that has a character in it (or later joins) the Toad will apply to the character as well. But I am not sure what happens if the marker is on the character.

 

[pendrake]

Don't have any of these; never have played them.

That said, this might be the most daft rule in all of Warhammer.

The mechanism of its operation is completely ridiculous. 'Just before the battle some Skink, operating with 100% cannot fail impunity (explained! By 100% never fails covert activity) places a foul-smelling, stinky Toad on someone's boot. AND AT NO POINT during the battle WILL THE VICTIM HAVE THE SENSE TO SCRAPE THEIR BOOTS CLEAN.'

This is just stupidly silly. If I do write Lizardhammer this StinkToad thing is gone, just gone.

If I put a Blot Toad marker on an enemy character will the marker also affect the unit he is with?
Presumably, if I put the marker on a unit that has a character in it (or later joins) the Toad will apply to the character as well. But I am not sure what happens if the marker is on the character.

When you place the marker all units (including characters which can be units in their own right) have been placed, correct?

So, if your opponent has a unit of Chaos Warriors and this unit includes a BSB and a scroll caddy Sorceror, does he insist on having you choose which of the three units you place the marker on? maybe he should?

 

[borkbork]

Ok, i havent used Rippers yet, but I just had a quick look at the Rule book.

Page 99: combined units section: Characters and the unit he joined (including any other characters in the unit) are treated as a single combined unit for ALL rule purpose, save for the exceptions listed (and these do not include bloth toads).

SO!!! this is my interpretation. If you put it on a unit with a character in it (which is considered a single unit) you actually automatically put it on both the unit and character. Therefore, Should the character leave the unit it actually should take the toad with him (while it also remains on the unit), so you should get a second toad marker. If he then joins another unit the marker should effect that entire unit as well as it is considered a single unit with the character.

Now, this will probably get you into an argument with your opponent, but this what the rulez say.

Anyway!

-You dont have to specify, in case of combined units, where you put it cause it is considere a single units (just like spell effects affect the whole unit, including characters)
-It definately should work on both the unit and the character that are in the unit when the marker is placed.
-It should also work on a new character joining the unit during the game
-it should also work on the original character in the unit when he leaves. (Spell effects also dont go away when a character leaves).
-it should also work on a new unit that the toaded character joins. (although i would not make a big argument over it if my opponent objects), but definately still on the character.

 

[pendrake]

...but I just had a quick look at the Rule book.

Page 99: combined units section: Characters and the unit he joined (including any other characters in the unit) are treated as a single combined unit for ALL rule purposes, save for the exceptions listed (and these do not include blot toads).

SO!!! this is my interpretation. If you put it on a unit with a character in it (which is considered a single unit) you actually automatically put it on both the unit and character. Therefore, Should the character leave the unit it actually should take the toad with him (while it also remains on the unit), so you should get a second toad marker...

I think your interpretation is gold up through "second toad marker". Sounds correct up to that point. But per the Lizardmen army book:

the only moment a model can get marked is that magical moment "after all units are placed, after scouts are deployed but before game begins" (when the magic, invisible Skink sneaks about painting toad stench on the boots of the victims). If that rule is followed strictly, there cannot ever be any transfer.

 

[borkbork]

@pendrake,

I never read the fluffy part of the rules, just to not confuse things even more.
However, i did now....and according to the fluff it is the scent of the toad that triggers the rippers, so in that way you could also argue that after placement it is not necesarrily the toad it self that causes the frenzy. Also, according to fluff it is the biggest toad in the jungle so i doubt the affected unit is unlikely to not notice the toad and if it is a life toad it is also unlikely that he will move with the unit. So, you can argue it is the scent of the toad that simply sticks to the unit or any character leaving the unit.

However, so perhaps we definately should not let the leaving characte infect a new unit (although according to the rules you could even argue that).

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

The mechanism of its operation is completely ridiculous. 'Just before the battle some Skink, operating with 100% cannot fail impunity (explained! By 100% never fails covert activity) places a foul-smelling, stinky Toad on someone's boot. AND AT NO POINT during the battle WILL THE VICTIM HAVE THE SENSE TO SCRAPE THEIR BOOTS CLEAN.'

This is just stupidly silly. If I do write Lizardhammer this StinkToad thing is gone, just gone.

I actually like the whole bloat toad fluff. I agree that it might not make the most sense... but it is lighthearted and fun. It's one of those silly little things that simply amuse me!


Back on topic...
This is a tough one. I feel that the Lizardmen player should have to specify if the character or the unit itself is being marked with the toad. While the character is part of the unit, both should be affected by the toad (no matter which was marked). However, if the character leaves the unit, then only the component that was actually marked (character or the unit) should be affected.

This is just how I would play it but I'm not stating that this is necessarily the right way. I could very well be wrong, but at the moment this is what feels right to me.

 

[borkbork]

@NIGHTBRINGER,

That sure is the most simple and probably cleanest way to do it (and i would not have a big issue with playing it like this). But the rules as (again poorly) written are against nominating either the character or unit.

Btw....how does it work when a character leaves a unit that is affected by a remains in play spell? Would the leaving character stop being effected or would you now have two unit on the table affected by the same spell.?

 

[Dinomokk]

Here's how I've interpreted it and played it and what makes the most sense to me.

You place the marker "...on any enemy unit on the tabletop...", which essentially makes it the same as targeting the unit. If the character you want to target, say that juicy mage, has already joined a unit at this point, you cannot target him, just like you wouldn't be able to target him with a fireball, regular shooting attacks or anything that targets a unit. You have to place the toad on the unit it self, and if the character later decides to leave that unit, then tough luck. If a character leaves a unit which is under a spell, the character is no longer effected by that spell and I believe our bload toad should be no different.

Anyway, that's how I play it atleast.

 

[Trociu]

I like Dinomokks explanation. But what happens when character under spell joins a unit?

 

[owain_b]

I cant find anything in the BRB that specifically says what happens in this situation, but if a character joins a unit affected by a spell, the character becomes affected. And it also says characters that join units become one unit, so I think the unit would then become affected but the spell if the spell targets units.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I cant find anything in the BRB that specifically says what happens in this situation

This is a unique situation, definitely not covered by the rules. All we can do is make our best interpretation.

 

[owain_b]

Found this in the FAQ:
Q: If a Wizard casts a spell that targets himself, or himself and his unit, and then leaves the unit, will the spell remain on both the Wizard and the unit? (p97)
A: No, once the Wizard has left the unit it will only target him. If he subsequently joins another unit, or rejoins the unit he has left, while the spell is still in play then they will benefit from the spell.

Ok so this isnt the exact situation, but its the closest thing rules wise that could be interpreted to cover the situation

 

[hardyworld]

This is a tough one. I feel that the Lizardmen player should have to specify if the character or the unit itself is being marked with the toad. While the character is part of the unit, both should be affected by the toad (no matter which was marked). However, if the character leaves the unit, then only the component that was actually marked (character or the unit) should be affected.

This is just how I would play it but I'm not stating that this is necessarily the right way. I could very well be wrong, but at the moment this is what feels right to me.

I concur with this 100%.