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Old School player back from the Dead

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Jungle Swarm

Mordicia

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Howdy,

Lizardmen was my first Army, and I do mean first, back many years ago during Warhammer Fantasy. I played them for 5+ years until AoS came out, then I dropped out of fantasy play, as I didn't like the direction things were going and all my gaming friends dropped out as well. The worst thing I did was sell my massive army, which was completely painted and based.

I've been playing Lizardmen in Total War 2 and it's awesome.

Now I hear Fantasy will be coming back and since my painting skills have greatly improved, I am thinking of building a new army.

I thought of giving AoS a shot, but I really like Old Bloods on Carnasours, Warriors, and Temple Guard and it looks like only Skinks are competitive. I don't mind Skinks, but I can't see them as the backbone of any army I'd want to play.

Any point in trying AoS or should I start collecting my models, waiting for the return of Fantasy?
 
I think you should wait for the new Seraphon book and see if your favored playstyle will be supported in AoS, and then give it a try.

AoS is a good game. It is different from WHFB but there are good reasons why it is more successful than WHFB was.

As for The Old World (which might be the return of WHFB or not) we just don't know anything about it yet except that it will support square bases to some degree or another, the name, and the setting.
(Edit: which is also why the meme above is silly)
 
Aginor said:
I think you should wait for the new Seraphon book and see if your favored playstyle will be supported in AoS, and then give it a try.

AoS is a good game. It is different from WHFB but there are good reasons why it is more successful than WHFB was.

As for The Old World (which might be the return of WHFB or not) we just don't know anything about it yet except that it will support square bases to some degree or another, the name, and the setting.
(Edit: which is also why the meme above is silly)
Click to expand...

Is it more successful than WHFB ever was? What metric are you using to measure that?

I have been out of the hobby for a while, but my observation from AoS was that it was going terribly with it. What changed?
 
Mordicia said:
Howdy,

Lizardmen was my first Army, and I do mean first, back many years ago during Warhammer Fantasy. I played them for 5+ years until AoS came out, then I dropped out of fantasy play, as I didn't like the direction things were going and all my gaming friends dropped out as well. The worst thing I did was sell my massive army, which was completely painted and based.

I've been playing Lizardmen in Total War 2 and it's awesome.

Now I hear Fantasy will be coming back and since my painting skills have greatly improved, I am thinking of building a new army.

I thought of giving AoS a shot, but I really like Old Bloods on Carnasours, Warriors, and Temple Guard and it looks like only Skinks are competitive. I don't mind Skinks, but I can't see them as the backbone of any army I'd want to play.

Any point in trying AoS or should I start collecting my models, waiting for the return of Fantasy?
Click to expand...

As you see, opinions are.. mixed on the matter. Looking into the Ninth Age is also a viable option if you want to play right now, and play something more akin to 8th than AoS is.
 
Wasn't trying to start an argument. I think I will just start collecting my favorite models for now, see what a new Seraphon book brings (If it doesn't make warriors and Temple Guard competitive, I won't be playing it), and wait for the return of Fantasy.

Thanks
 
Mordicia said:
Howdy,

Lizardmen was my first Army, and I do mean first, back many years ago during Warhammer Fantasy. I played them for 5+ years until AoS came out, then I dropped out of fantasy play, as I didn't like the direction things were going and all my gaming friends dropped out as well. The worst thing I did was sell my massive army, which was completely painted and based.

I've been playing Lizardmen in Total War 2 and it's awesome.

Now I hear Fantasy will be coming back and since my painting skills have greatly improved, I am thinking of building a new army.

I thought of giving AoS a shot, but I really like Old Bloods on Carnasours, Warriors, and Temple Guard and it looks like only Skinks are competitive. I don't mind Skinks, but I can't see them as the backbone of any army I'd want to play.

Any point in trying AoS or should I start collecting my models, waiting for the return of Fantasy?
Click to expand...

Ouch! Feeling your pain! Did the same thing with BOTH my armies back in the day and my brother did the same with his army.

Have you checked if anything from 8th edition is on in your area?
 
No 8th edition at my Local Gaming Store, just AoS and they are all competitive Power Gamers (most of the old school players moved on).
 
airjamy said:
Is it more successful than WHFB ever was? What metric are you using to measure that?
Click to expand...
I'll have to dig it up but IIRC it was someone from GW who said that. Lack of commercial success was one of the main reasons to drop WHFB in the first place.

AoS didn't do good in its first year, but after the first General's Handbook it gained a lot of players.
 
Aginor said:
(Edit: which is also why the meme above is silly)
Click to expand...
I guess it makes sense that Team Barney wouldn't like that meme. ;)

airjamy said:
I have been out of the hobby for a while, but my observation from AoS was that it was going terribly with it. What changed?
Click to expand...
The rise of AoS coincided with the rise of the Tide Pod challenge. I'm not claiming causality, maybe it is just a happy coincidence. :D Just saying!


airjamy said:
What changed?
Click to expand...
GW's entire business structure changed. They now interact with their consumer base. They have a massive social media presence. They listen to feedback and act on it. They better support their games with more regular FAQs and point adjustments. They have better spread into other markets. etc. etc. etc.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
GW's entire business structure changed. They now interact with their consumer base. They have a massive social media presence. They listen to feedback and act on it. They better support their games with more regular FAQs and point adjustments. They have better spread into other markets. etc. etc. etc.
Click to expand...
This is certainly a factor, but another big one is that they got rid of that old, bloated rule set that was a huge hurdle for beginners.

To learn and play AoS properly you don't need a massive army or 90 bucks worth of books.

According to the business reports for GW sales skyrocketed in recent years. 2018 and 2019 had 180% or something increases in profit. That comes from both 40k and AoS.

So yeah, while some people may not like it, AoS is pretty successful.
How much of it is the game itself and how much is the improved marketing... I guess only GW might be able to tell. Maybe not even them.
 
Aginor said:
This is certainly a factor, but another big one is that they got rid of that old, bloated rule set that was a huge hurdle for beginners.
Click to expand...
I'll concede that. WFB is a cognitively more advanced game, and that might very well turn away some people. That is not say that if you play WFB you are this or if you play AoS you are that, but WFB is a more complex game. That is why I prefer it, but I can see that others might view that as a detriment. Also people have shorter attention spans today than they did 20 years ago, so the huge initial rules hurdle might not work as well in today's society.

Aginor said:
According to the business reports for GW sales skyrocketed in recent years. 2018 and 2018 had 180% or something increases in profit. That comes from both 40k and AoS.
Click to expand...
Does that exclude the massive gains that they got from licensing out their IP (i.e. Total War: Warhammer and others)?

It also says nothing about the relative contributions of 40k vs. AoS. Nor does it speak of percent market share (the market might simply be bigger). On the other hand, in AoS' defense, there is also a lot more competition today from other games.

Aginor said:
So yeah, while some people may not like it, AoS is pretty successful.
Click to expand...
It would appear so.
 
Aginor said:
This is certainly a factor, but another big one is that they got rid of that old, bloated rule set that was a huge hurdle for beginners.

To learn and play AoS properly you don't need a massive army or 90 bucks worth of books.

According to the business reports for GW sales skyrocketed in recent years. 2018 and 2019 had 180% or something increases in profit. That comes from both 40k and AoS.

So yeah, while some people may not like it, AoS is pretty successful.
How much of it is the game itself and how much is the improved marketing... I guess only GW might be able to tell. Maybe not even them.
Click to expand...

Ok, i can get that. Still at all not enthused to try the game ;)
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
Does that exclude the massive gains that they got from licensing out their IP (i.e. Total War: Warhammer and others)?
Click to expand...

The numbers I read were only from retail and online sales.

NIGHTBRINGER said:
It also says nothing about the relative contributions of 40k vs. AoS. Nor does it speak of percent market share (the market might simply be bigger). On the other hand, in AoS' defense, there is also a lot more competition today from other games.
Click to expand...
We have a few numbers about that. Or rather estimates that match up with rumors and the very few leaks we had about it.

This reddit thread has some:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/814l4f/what_percentage_of_gw_sales_is_from_40k_and_age/

Highlights of that thread:
(Edit: actually not. No time to again read through it now though. This is only from memory as I am watching the NFL right now)
- GW made more money from colors than from the whole WHFB range
- WHFB is estimated to have made 10% the money that 40k made. It seems it was losing money and GW could only continue to support it because 40k made tons of money.
- at one point there was a 40k boxed set that made more money than all of WHFB it seems.
- 40k is stronger than it was, it is growing well
- AoS is estimated to make around 30% the money 40k makes
- royalties for licensed stuff are rumored to make up 16% or so of the total revenue.
- GW bosses have repeatedly said that they are "very happy" with how AoS products sell.

I admit I haven't dug up or checked all the sources though. Many of it is conjecture because we just don't know much. Many numbers come from 3rd party sources (such as other retailers selling GW products and reporting about their numbers).
 
Welcome to the forums!

I prefer 8th edition but I'm not going to say that it's definitively the best. I will play 8th edition, Age of Sigmar, 9th Age, or Kings of War. Whatever I can find a player for. I have yet to find a 9th Age playing within 500 miles of me, but if I do find someone who is willing and able to play it with me, I'll give it a shot.

This forum covers ALL possible ways of playing reptile minis on the tabletop and as long as I have a say in things, it always will.

I do like pre-Age of Sigmar lore much more than Age of Sigmar lore, but that's neither here nor there. Painting and modeling essentially transcends every game.

Let us know if you have any questions about gameplay, painting, fluff, or anything else.
 
Welcome back!

I think we have some thanks to pay to total war for the old world making a comeback.

So many people wanting to find out about a world that unfortunately no longer exists - but will soon again!
 
Aginor said:
The numbers I read were only from retail and online sales.


We have a few numbers about that. Or rather estimates that match up with rumors and the very few leaks we had about it.

This reddit thread has some:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/814l4f/what_percentage_of_gw_sales_is_from_40k_and_age/

Highlights of that thread:
(Edit: actually not. No time to again read through it now though. This is only from memory as I am watching the NFL right now)
- GW made more money from colors than from the whole WHFB range
- WHFB is estimated to have made 10% the money that 40k made. It seems it was losing money and GW could only continue to support it because 40k made tons of money.
- at one point there was a 40k boxed set that made more money than all of WHFB it seems.
- 40k is stronger than it was, it is growing well
- AoS is estimated to make around 30% the money 40k makes
- royalties for licensed stuff are rumored to make up 16% or so of the total revenue.
- GW bosses have repeatedly said that they are "very happy" with how AoS products sell.

I admit I haven't dug up or checked all the sources though. Many of it is conjecture because we just don't know much. Many numbers come from 3rd party sources (such as other retailers selling GW products and reporting about their numbers).
Click to expand...

The problem with all that is that it is a lot speculation and conjecture. GW doesn't release a lot of specific information, and people simply create their best guesses (which often serve their narrative). With that said, here are my best guesses and opinions...

  • 40k comprises the majority of GW's sales, it did during WFB and it continues to do so today
  • AoS is profitable, though how much, only GW knows
  • AoS was saved by the General's Handbook
  • WFB and AoS profitability cannot be accurately compared because there are simply too many confounding variables
  • the new GW business structure under Rountree is far superior to the Kirby led GW [thus creating the confounding variables mentioned above]
 
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