AoS Patient Guardians from the Eternal Starhost

[Mark Sinosich]

"Patient Guardians: While the Saurus Guard that form an Eternal Starhost remain motionless, their weapons gather celestial energy that discharges with the force of a supernova. If a unit of Saurus Guard from an Eternal Starhost does not move in its movement or charge phases, its Celestite Polearms have a Damage characteristic of D3 rather than 1 in the following combat phase."

I want to make sure I am reading this right...

If I don't move or charge in my move or charge phase then the following combat phase (which is still in my turn) I will do D3 Damage. Either I will already be in combat which makes this good or I wont be in combat which means the extra D3 Damage is wasted because if the enemy gets the next turn the D3 will be off and if I get a double turn I will either not move/charge again and do nothing or move/charge and not get D3 Damage.

Is that right?

Actually now that I think of it, if you really wanted to be a rules lawyer you could play the wording of "movement OR charge phases" as one and not the other. You can MOVE and NOT CHARGE or you can NOT MOVE and CHARGE. As long as you don't do both: "movement AND charge phases".

Thoughts?

 

[Workschmock]

I think it works if you are already in combat and you avtivate them to pile in and attack. Pile in is neither in your movement phase nor your charge phase but in your combat phase. Thus the Bonus applies. I think its a pretty weak bonus though. Does not work in your enemys turn and in one third of tbe cases it wont increase the dmg output.

 

[Bowser]

It goes until your next movement / charge phases. So even if you get charged you will still have it if you didn't move on the previous turn.

 

[m0gstar]

Correct. Guard are a very defensive unit. They can pile in and still make use of the empowered attacks. Other effects will specifically state that they cannot pile in our the loser their bonuses, this bonus is not lost in pile in, however. It's FAQd somewhere.

Guard rely a lot on winning a double turn for their effectiveness to go up. Usually just have to park em on an objective and use them as immovable objects.

As far as the phases go, OR is the only one that makes sense . They don't want you moving in either phase at any time for any reason. With using AND, as you have inferred, would indicate that you would have to move in both. ie. Move forward 5" and then complete a charge. Using OR tells us that the effect is lost if you move the 5" OR complete the charge.

 

[Mark Sinosich]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Looks like this is a confusing rule. I thought I searched for this type of post already, looks like I failed as it is here: http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/eternal-starhost-question.19283/

I am not sure why people are mentioning "turn" when that word is no where in the battalion rules. "movement or charge phases" and "in the following combat phase".

Bowser and Workschmock, looks like you two play the rule differently. I am still inclined to think the rule is written as Workschmock explains it, but of course I wish it was played in any player's turn. I am not even sure of the rules intent.

M0gstar. Any idea what that FAQ is? I can't see anything on Patient Guardians in the rules update.

As far as the phases go, OR is the only one that makes sense . They don't want you moving in either phase at any time for any reason. With using AND, as you have inferred, would indicate that you would have to move in both. ie. Move forward 5" and then complete a charge. Using OR tells us that the effect is lost if you move the 5" OR complete the charge.

Note, I am not here to interpret what they "intended" when writing the rules - if we did this we would be debating rules forever. I am just trying to understand it as written and then decide how stupid the written rule was and play it how it was intended. Why? Sometimes you play with friends that play by the rule of the law and not intent or spirit of the game.

Let's look at the difference if we use OR or AND:

"If ... Saurus Guard ... does not move in its movement OR charge phases, its ... Damage ... D3 ... in the following combat phase."

OR works. Only 1 needs to be true to make the statement true, Either the Saurus Guard does not move in its movement phase OR the Suarus Guard does not move in its charge phases, either-or it is eligible for the Damage D3 in the following combat phase.

"If ... Saurus Guard ... does not move in its movement AND charge phases, its ... Damage ... D3 ... in the following combat phase."

AND works also. Both must be true to make the statement true. The Saurus Guard does not move in its movement phase AND it does not move in its charge phase then it is eligible for D3 Damage in the following combat phase.

"Using OR tells us that the effect is lost if you move the 5" OR complete the charge." - They are stating a bonus that is gained, not one that is lost. The Saurus Guard have a base damage of 1, not D3. This rule is stating what Saurus Guard gain if they meet the criteria, not what they lose if they fail the criteria, else their base damage would be 1.

 

[m0gstar]

.

 

[Aginor]

It goes until your next movement / charge phases. So even if you get charged you will still have it if you didn't move on the previous turn.

Either I don't understand or what you wrote is incorrect IMO.
It says "in the following combat phase" which means that one in the current turn. So if you went first and got it and then it is your opponent's turn in that round you will not get it. Just like the Waagh from the Orruk Warboss.

And of course it means that you are not allowed to charge AND not allowed to move or you will lose it, but you can pile in (not movement or charge phase), or even get moved by a Saurus Oldblood's command ability (not movement because hero phase).

We are mentioning turns because the warscroll talks about phases, which are part of a turn, which is part of a round.

 

[Killer Angel]

Either I don't understand or what you wrote is incorrect IMO.
It says "in the following combat phase" which means that one in the current turn.

Yes, Patient Guardians works only during your turn. ("If a unit of Saurus Guard from an Eternal Starhost does not move in its movement or charge phases")