Poll: What is the most probable future for your Lizardmen?

[Jack Trowell]

Unfortunately KOW isn't a good alternative to any game IMO, it doesn't give you much in the ways of customizing units so every game feels like you are pushing blocks around. The only people that I would suggest play KOW is young kids just getting into wargaming

This is the opposite of my experience.

First, about customisation, do you know that you can equip most magic artefacts on almost any unit, not only characters ? While not unit can get more than one, and each artefact is unique (you cannot take several units with the same one in your army), this give a very big potential for custom units.

Don't like the fact that Heroes are not in units because you really like your Slann deployed in a Temple Guard unit ? Just make this unit with the slann into an unit of Anciens salamanders with the Diadem of Dragon Kin that will give the unit a powerful breath attack representing the Slann offensive magic.

Miss the old combined units of Kroxigors and Skinks ? Put a few Kroxi models in your skink units and use it as a Ghekkotah Warriors unit with the brew of strength to represent the added power of the Kroxigors.

And the game itself is certainly not just pushing blocks, movement is very important, flanking has a massive impact, and the scenarios can changfe the way you play and encourage a balanced army.

I have seen a few Warhammer player try the game with a mindset from the previous game and try to use only a few very powerful units, usually elite hordes upgrades with artefacts, because in WHFB a powerful unit could kill many lesser ones, but in KoW this is a very flawed army (and a boring one to play), as the number of units is very important.

Even a small troop can be used to protect a flank, charge a flank, serve as a sacrifice (not unlike a redirector in WHFB), hold an objective, ... and even do some damage to any target.
For exemple a horde of shooters can seems to be rather good on paper with their optimal points per shot comaped to troops or regiments, until you get one disabled by a small and cheap mounted hero, fast cavalry or flying units or so on that charge it, did one point of damage, and so prevented the unit from shooting for a turn.
In the reverse, a small archer troops might not seem to be able to do much damage, until you realise that in many games they shine in late turns when doing only one point of damage can be what will force a nerve check on a powerful ennemy unit that won a fight against your other units but got heavily damaged in exchange.

Sure, if your army is just a few hordes of Orcs infantry with no small units in support and no ranged attack, and your opponent does something similar with an Ogre army of Large infantry melee hordes and a few melee monsters don't expect a very rewarding game for both of you.

The same could be say (and in fact has been said many times) for Warhammer by players who only used big death stars units and almost nothing else.

 

[Killer Angel]

The actual pool 's results are kinda depressing...
Between KoW, other wargames, no wargames and selled armies, warhammer has been abandoned by more than a quarter of the voters...

The damage done to the hobby by GW, is staggering.

 

[RaptorTamer]

This is the opposite of my experience.

First, about customisation, do you know that you can equip most magic artefacts on almost any unit, not only characters ? While not unit can get more than one, and each artefact is unique (you cannot take several units with the same one in your army), this give a very big potential for custom units.

Don't like the fact that Heroes are not in units because you really like your Slann deployed in a Temple Guard unit ? Just make this unit with the slann into an unit of Anciens salamanders with the Diadem of Dragon Kin that will give the unit a powerful breath attack representing the Slann offensive magic.

Miss the old combined units of Kroxigors and Skinks ? Put a few Kroxi models in your skink units and use it as a Ghekkotah Warriors unit with the brew of strength to represent the added power of the Kroxigors.

And the game itself is certainly not just pushing blocks, movement is very important, flanking has a massive impact, and the scenarios can changfe the way you play and encourage a balanced army.

I have seen a few Warhammer player try the game with a mindset from the previous game and try to use only a few very powerful units, usually elite hordes upgrades with artefacts, because in WHFB a powerful unit could kill many lesser ones, but in KoW this is a very flawed army (and a boring one to play), as the number of units is very important.

Even a small troop can be used to protect a flank, charge a flank, serve as a sacrifice (not unlike a redirector in WHFB), hold an objective, ... and even do some damage to any target.
For exemple a horde of shooters can seems to be rather good on paper with their optimal points per shot comaped to troops or regiments, until you get one disabled by a small and cheap mounted hero, fast cavalry or flying units or so on that charge it, did one point of damage, and so prevented the unit from shooting for a turn.
In the reverse, a small archer troops might not seem to be able to do much damage, until you realise that in many games they shine in late turns when doing only one point of damage can be what will force a nerve check on a powerful ennemy unit that won a fight against your other units but got heavily damaged in exchange.

Sure, if your army is just a few hordes of Orcs infantry with no small units in support and no ranged attack, and your opponent does something similar with an Ogre army of Large infantry melee hordes and a few melee monsters don't expect a very rewarding game for both of you.

The same could be say (and in fact has been said many times) for Warhammer by players who only used big death stars units and almost nothing else.

Unfortunatly for me the game was a lot less rewarding. I had bought a whole new ogre army to play the game and must have tried every combination of unit/magic item I could think of. I fielded every unit in that army and nothing seemed to interest me, I even tried my other army elves and nothing it was just not for me. Honestly if KOW becomes the new Warhammer and that is the game everyone plays then I will play it but it is not getting my vote.

 

[themuffinman873]

Unfortunatly for me the game was a lot less rewarding.

I feel the same way, the game felt a little less interesting. However, I will say KoW has never felt like a landslide (which I have played plenty of landslide games in 8th), and you can actually play 2 games back to back before people really start suffering from mini fatigue. The number of blocks you field too makes for a really sharp looking battle, without having to quit at turn 4 or 5 because the game takes too long.
I will not miss indestructible flying demon prices in KoW, I will miss the slann. For the time being, I am putting my eggs in 9th, as I enjoy the ridiculous and seemingly random nature of magic.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Will GW still allow players to play 8th in their stores, or are all games and 8th ed paraphernalia banned?

I quite sure they would have absolutely no problem with you playing 8th edition in their stores. As long as you are using GW models, I'm sure they would gladly let you play.

I think as long as you are buying their models, you can play pretty much any game with them you would like. IMHO you could play 9th Age with your models if you wished, or use them as chess pieces or anything else.

 

[Jack Trowell]

The actual pool 's results are kinda depressing...
Between KoW, other wargames, no wargames and selled armies, warhammer has been abandoned by more than a quarter of the voters...

The damage done to the hobby by GW, is staggering.

This is only true if you consider the hobby to be "playing GW's Warhammer with Citadel miniatures(tm)"

You can still play your lizardmen with other rule sets and still use Warhammer original fluff for your army if you want, as well as your existing models.

I would say that having several viable rules options means that we are in fact in a potential new golden age of Fantasy Wargaming, or at least a fairly good silver age.

 

[Killer Angel]

This is only true if you consider the hobby to be "playing GW's Warhammer with Citadel miniatures(tm)"

You can still play your lizardmen with other rule sets and still use Warhammer original fluff for your army if you want, as well as your existing models.

I would say that having several viable rules options means that we are in fact in a potential new golden age of Fantasy Wargaming, or at least a fairly good silver age.

You certainly have a point.
My fear is that (leaving aside that 12-13% that leaved the game), what keeps the community alive and strong, is a common ground of discussion, made by a shared fluff and rules of the game.
If we're going to be shattered amongst different game systems, that common ground will fade away. .. I won't join a KoW debate if I don't play KoW.

That said, I have a (positive) feeling about the future (I had a vision! ), but it requires a dedicated thread...

 

[Lord_Itzi-Bitzi]

I will continue to play 8th Edition with two friends. I started to play Warhammer with this edition. I also love all the backround storys of the different armies and the whole world which the 8th edition discribes. I hate Age of Shitmar because it destroyed this world in one second: I mean now you can play Lizardmen or in Shitmarisch Seraphon together with Dark Elfs?! This two armies hate each other!!! And don't forget about the super awesome new Shitmarines... Space Marines just with more gold and hammers. Not to mention that GW put whole armies out of their sortiment!
Why couldn't GW release AoS as a seperat alternative game to Warhammer Fantasy... or just a good 9th Edition...?

 

[Killer Angel]

I hate Age of Shitmar because it destroyed this world in one second

AoS didn't destroyed the Old World, GW did it.
AoS is a game with excellent mechanics, quick and fun to play. AoS fluff... err... not so fascinating, I could say.

The fact is that AoS is a totally different game from WHFB. IMO it should have been developed without blasting the old game.

Why couldn't GW release AoS as a seperat alternative game to Warhammer Fantasy

QFT

 

[pendrake]

I would say that having several viable rules options means that we are in fact in a potential new golden age of Fantasy Wargaming, or at least a fairly good silver age.

Players should write and control the rules.

That is the way it was before Warhammer came into existence...things have come full circle.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

AoS is a game with excellent mechanics, quick and fun to play.

Agree to disagree.

 

[Killer Angel]

Agree to disagree.

Yeah, that 's the wisest course of action. After all, I'm entitled to have my wrong opinion .

 

[Bowser]

Should try a new poll in August or September, after the General's Handbook and the 9th age rules all drop, see where everyone is at then. It would be interesting to see if the numbers change up a lot or if it turns out somewhat the same.

 

[Jack Trowell]

Probably a good idea, it can be intereseting to see how the trend evolve.

Note that you might want to post a message in the Kings of War thread with a link to the new poll when you launch it, I don't frequent he main forums much currently and others might be like me.

 

[Crowsfoot]

Should try a new poll in August or September, after the General's Handbook and the 9th age rules all drop, see where everyone is at then. It would be interesting to see if the numbers change up a lot or if it turns out somewhat the same.

Good idea, I for one will be playing KOW and AOS and Silver tower, I can't wait to get my hands on Silver tower another 50 models to paint!

I'm also debating what to do about AOS, I've multi based most of my Seraphon so do I buy new for AOS later on I can still field around 30% for AOS so no mad rush.

 

[Slanputin]

I for one will be playing KOW and AOS and Silver tower, I can't wait to get my hands on Silver tower another 50 models to paint!

I'm also debating what to do about AOS, I've multi based most of my Seraphon so do I buy new for AOS later on I can still field around 30% for AOS so no mad rush.

I've not rebased any. They're still legal on squares.

I may have already bought a Summoner, Ogroid, familiars, and Acolytes form the interwebs my Tzeentch army cometh!

 

[Bowser]

Good idea, I for one will be playing KOW and AOS and Silver tower, I can't wait to get my hands on Silver tower another 50 models to paint!

I'm also debating what to do about AOS, I've multi based most of my Seraphon so do I buy new for AOS later on I can still field around 30% for AOS so no mad rush.

Worst case scenario you could work out fhe charge and then instead of the normal pile in you could either let all attack, or just the front row or two attack. Or just keep the games small and in the silver tower!

 

[Warden]

Cast my vote.

Since I am so used to the older rules I will probably stick with Oldhammer somewhere between 5th and 7th, unless I find a new gaming group somewhere after I move.

Though I would be open to playing either 8th or Kings of War, both systems sound interesting, I don't see myself playing much AOS unless I have no other choice...

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

This is a little late but I'm a supporter of 8th Edition as you all know. Just because my local GW doesn't host tournaments for it anymore, doesn't mean I can't still play it at home with my family and friends.

I may also now and then play Oldhammer as I have my 7th Ed stuff and an ancient 3rd Edition rulebook I bought from a charity shop once but mostly it'll be 8th for me from now on. Also I just don't like the idea of the Seraphon being made of stardust, it just doesn't suit the tough-as-nails nature of the Saurus to have them just go poof into stardust when they're killed, so if I do play AoS at all it won't be with my Lizardmen. It'll almost definitely be Fyreslayers as you probably all know, but I have still got loads of fantasy minis to make to even think about starting AoS at the moment.

 

[Aginor]

Just fyi:
The writers deliberately let open more than one hole that easily allows Seraphon NOT to be made of stardust.
So if that's your only objection (I guess it isn't), it isn't something that should bother you.