8th Ed. Power Dice Cap and Focused Rumination

[Chicken Basket]

Thanks for helping to clear some of that up guys. I felt that the Slann should have these abilities granted from the Discipline, but I was essentially playing devil's advocate introducing what other players will likely say about the rule to negate its power. I apologize for any "negative" talk about the Slann in pursuit of fairness.
Appreciate the comments and criticisms provided.
As always, Happy Gaming!

-Chicken Basket

 

[Kurlin]

Thanks for helping to clear some of that up guys. I felt that the Slann should have these abilities granted from the Discipline, but I was essentially playing devil's advocate introducing what other players will likely say about the rule to negate its power. I apologize for any "negative" talk about the Slann in pursuit of fairness.
Appreciate the comments and criticisms provided.
As always, Happy Gaming!

-Chicken Basket

No need to apologize, open debate about possible rule interpretations helps people remember the rules, and/or see a rule that they could have easily missed. Like me forgetting about the rumination sentence strewart pointed out

 

[oxyquel]

dont get yourselfs confused. slanns discipline states that this is a ''free'' power dice added to the attempt. NOT to the pool. so no worries if 12 dice initially in the pool. the extra die is never lost...

 

[msinosic]

dont get yourselfs confused. slanns discipline states that this is a ''free'' power dice added to the attempt. NOT to the pool. so no worries if 12 dice initially in the pool. the extra die is never lost...

I do believe that 'Focused Rumination' could allow the Slann to roll more than the maximum 6 dice to cast a single spell. I do not believe this to be possible if there are already 12 dice in the pool, this has already been clarified above with the line that says no 'special abilities' allow it to exceed 12.

I like to think the fluff goes something like this, as the Slann is more powerful than most magic users so he himself can wield more magic at any single given point in time but there is only a finite amount of magic that will fit in the area around the battlefield, that being 12 dice worth.

 

[strewart]

No worries, Chicken basket (interesting username by the way ) as mentioned, the rules are often not completely clear and the way they are written can have 2 or more interpretations. It is useful to discuss it here so you know what to discuss with your opponent.

@oxyquel, that is a good point and I thought of it too. The free dice never actually becomes part of the pool at all. However, I think msinosic is correct when it says no special abilities can get it above 12, that encompasses things at the start of the phase and instantaneous things.

I mean, you could also argue when exactly are the dice taken from the pool? The Slann ability adds a free dice to the ones you are already about to roll, have they already been taken from the pool so don't count toward the limit either? Say you have 12 dice, you grab 2 dice to cast a spell, that leaves 10 in your pool, so you can add the 'free' dice to your roll. I think it has some merit, but I think it is being nitpicky and not following the rules as intended, which are generally written to be taken at face value and not questioned too much.

 

[Caneghem]

Wow, good catch on the 7 power dice now allowed Strewart. For those times when you are looking to burn up the cupped hands and a good chunk of the enemy as well.

 

[Chicken Basket]

Alright I'm back again needing more answers...

Directly from the 8th edition Lizardmen FAQ:
"Q. Does the ‘free’ power dice gained from Focused Rumination count
against the power limit? (p43)
A. Yes."

8th edition rule book defines "Power Limit" as the maximum of 12 to be used without alteration from items or spells.

The solution to the question we've been asking is answered right there. I'm interpreting "against the power limit" to mean that this is an ability that is still under the umbrella of the power limit. This also only applies directly to our army and that discipline so I don't see the excuse "Oh well its a free dice because the army book says so!" when the Errata tells us that it counts against it.

Questions and comments?

 

[Kurlin]

Alright I'm back again needing more answers...

Directly from the 8th edition Lizardmen FAQ:
"Q. Does the ‘free’ power dice gained from Focused Rumination count
against the power limit? (p43)
A. Yes."

8th edition rule book defines "Power Limit" as the maximum of 12 to be used without alteration from items or spells.

The solution to the question we've been asking is answered right there. I'm interpreting "against the power limit" to mean that this is an ability that is still under the umbrella of the power limit. This also only applies directly to our army and that discipline so I don't see the excuse "Oh well its a free dice because the army book says so!" when the Errata tells us that it counts against it.

Questions and comments?

Power limit is the rule that has the pool capped at 12 at any given time. So when you roll 12 for the number of dice in your pool, you can not use the free dice from Rumination. Or if you are using death and your pool gets back up to 12 etc...

If your pool is at 12 you cant use rumination, simple.

 

[Taipan]

Awesome. So in summary:

- If you have 'Focused Rumination' or a similar ability, you can roll more than the 6 dice normally allowed for a spell attempt.

- Maximum amount of power dice in the army's pool is 12, can't be improved further by any special ability or effect.

 

[strewart]

Alright I'm back again needing more answers...

Directly from the 8th edition Lizardmen FAQ:
"Q. Does the ‘free’ power dice gained from Focused Rumination count
against the power limit? (p43)
A. Yes."

8th edition rule book defines "Power Limit" as the maximum of 12 to be used without alteration from items or spells.

The solution to the question we've been asking is answered right there. I'm interpreting "against the power limit" to mean that this is an ability that is still under the umbrella of the power limit. This also only applies directly to our army and that discipline so I don't see the excuse "Oh well its a free dice because the army book says so!" when the Errata tells us that it counts against it.

Questions and comments?

Yep, and as mentioned, the power dice can never go above 12 at any point in the phase.

So I think we go back to the original interpretation.

-If you have 12 dice, you cannot boost a spell with rumination
-If you have less than 12 dice, you can
-All is fair and legal as long as the pool never actually goes above 12, NOT 12 is the maximum you can have for a whole phase
-If you choose to grab 6 dice from the pool, you can still use rumination to cast with 7 dice

 

[hd.40]

Lets just show up on GW's front door and bust some heads already.