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8th Ed. Questions from a noob: Part 6 - new questions
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Pinktaco
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Re: Questions from a noob: Part 5 - new questions
Had a strange question pop up during a game yesterday:
The refom rule (with musician) allows one to face any side you want followed by a move and you can also reform the actual formation - go from horde to not-horde and vice versa.
So what happens if you swiftreform due to musician and decides to turn your unit 180 degree. Are you allowed to also make your unit a horde AND move? Or can you only turn + move..
Or make it a horde + move?
Am I making sense here? I looked it up, but maybe I missed something when I read about it.
Secondly: Is it understood correct that the salamanders no longer cause panic when they wound?
Had a strange question pop up during a game yesterday:
The refom rule (with musician) allows one to face any side you want followed by a move and you can also reform the actual formation - go from horde to not-horde and vice versa.
So what happens if you swiftreform due to musician and decides to turn your unit 180 degree. Are you allowed to also make your unit a horde AND move? Or can you only turn + move..
Or make it a horde + move?
Am I making sense here? I looked it up, but maybe I missed something when I read about it.
Secondly: Is it understood correct that the salamanders no longer cause panic when they wound?
Chameleon Skink
olderplayer
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Re: Questions from a noob: Part 5 - new questions
See page 95 of the BRB. Generally, a swift reform is any legal reform and still allows you to move or move and shoot even. As discussed on page 14 of the BRB wrt reforms, none of the individual models can move during the reform more than twice their normal movement rate.
Notes: Technically, in the spirit of the rules, I try to play so that the total distance covered in the movement phase (swfit reform plus move) does not exceed twice the movement rate. This issue will most likely arise when the unit has a relatively low M value and rotates as well as widens the unit size, like when one goes from a ranked up unit to a "Conga" line (single rank or file of models) that is wide or deep. It is not easy to check and one can get pretty rediculous about measuring and deciding how far each model actually moved, so one has to be reasonsable, like picking models on the far corners of the unit after the reform has been completed and checking to make sure they did not move too far. from the original footprint of the unit. I often forget this, but it is a really good practice to mark the original footprint of the unit with dice or a movement tray or something else and then you can measure and see if the reform is legal. Also, remember that a until with its M reduced to say 1 (such as due to a boosted miiasma spell) might be effectively limited in its ability to swift reform., and this is often neglected in play. A clommon trick with a unit with a model that is or models that are stubborn is to form a single line of models with the model in the front not being the model that is stubborn not being in front.
Any fire thrower shooting attacks that wound cause panic in the BRB (around p. 114).
See page 95 of the BRB. Generally, a swift reform is any legal reform and still allows you to move or move and shoot even. As discussed on page 14 of the BRB wrt reforms, none of the individual models can move during the reform more than twice their normal movement rate.
Notes: Technically, in the spirit of the rules, I try to play so that the total distance covered in the movement phase (swfit reform plus move) does not exceed twice the movement rate. This issue will most likely arise when the unit has a relatively low M value and rotates as well as widens the unit size, like when one goes from a ranked up unit to a "Conga" line (single rank or file of models) that is wide or deep. It is not easy to check and one can get pretty rediculous about measuring and deciding how far each model actually moved, so one has to be reasonsable, like picking models on the far corners of the unit after the reform has been completed and checking to make sure they did not move too far. from the original footprint of the unit. I often forget this, but it is a really good practice to mark the original footprint of the unit with dice or a movement tray or something else and then you can measure and see if the reform is legal. Also, remember that a until with its M reduced to say 1 (such as due to a boosted miiasma spell) might be effectively limited in its ability to swift reform., and this is often neglected in play. A clommon trick with a unit with a model that is or models that are stubborn is to form a single line of models with the model in the front not being the model that is stubborn not being in front.
Any fire thrower shooting attacks that wound cause panic in the BRB (around p. 114).
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Pinktaco
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Re: Questions from a noob: Part 5 - new questions
Oh right. I was confused because I googled something about the razordon (whether they have armour piercing or not) last night and people on warseer (I believe) agreed upon that razordons doesn't have armour piercing nor does salamanders do panic, however I now realize there's a difference in their rules.
I'll keep that other part in mind, thank you.
olderplayer said:
Oh right. I was confused because I googled something about the razordon (whether they have armour piercing or not) last night and people on warseer (I believe) agreed upon that razordons doesn't have armour piercing nor does salamanders do panic, however I now realize there's a difference in their rules.
I'll keep that other part in mind, thank you.
Chameleon Skink
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Re: Questions from a noob: Part 5 - new questions
They were right that the razordon's shooting is not AP but wrong about the salamander. The key to the salamander is that the new army book (p. 46) clearly says that the shooting attack follows the rules for a fire thrower but for some exceptions (S4, instead of S5,; they clarified that the model is slow to fire to avoid giving it a stand and shoot reaction ability; and a misfire causes the salamander to eat skink handlers instead of rolling on the misfire table on p. 113 of the BRB). The BRB rules (p. 114) for fire throwers say that a unit wounded by a fire thrower shooting attack suffers panic. It would be nice if the author of the army book anticipated the issue, rather than referring the reader to the rules for fire throwers in the BRB and made it clear that a unit that suffers a wound from a fire thrower must take a panic test. Basically, salamanders are like mobile fire throwers just like skull cannons in the Daemons of chaos book generally follow the ruls for cannons in the BRB (but for the addition of flaming attacks).
They were right that the razordon's shooting is not AP but wrong about the salamander. The key to the salamander is that the new army book (p. 46) clearly says that the shooting attack follows the rules for a fire thrower but for some exceptions (S4, instead of S5,; they clarified that the model is slow to fire to avoid giving it a stand and shoot reaction ability; and a misfire causes the salamander to eat skink handlers instead of rolling on the misfire table on p. 113 of the BRB). The BRB rules (p. 114) for fire throwers say that a unit wounded by a fire thrower shooting attack suffers panic. It would be nice if the author of the army book anticipated the issue, rather than referring the reader to the rules for fire throwers in the BRB and made it clear that a unit that suffers a wound from a fire thrower must take a panic test. Basically, salamanders are like mobile fire throwers just like skull cannons in the Daemons of chaos book generally follow the ruls for cannons in the BRB (but for the addition of flaming attacks).
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Pinktaco
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Re: Questions from a noob: Part 5 - new questions
PART 6: A few questions we just need to have confirmed, it's nothing major:
1) My friend is sure to have read that if you charge someone in the front and in the back/rear they cannot be steadfast anymore. He couldn't find it in the BRB when I questioned him, but I just find it hard to believe that you need 2 ranks of at leats 5 models just to disrupt someone (and deny them their rank bonus), but can take any single model in the rear/flank of someone who is already engaged in CC and rob them of their steadfast.
So did he mix up the disruption rule or is there truly something else?
2) The ancient steg comes with giant blowpipes. These are not considere slow to fire so I assume they can stand and shoot or am I missing something here? My friend questioned it a bit. it did 3 wounds on his orc boar chariot that got a charge of on my steg. Lol.
3) The flying rules are a bit random. It says that you can charge over other units if you can see the unit you want to charge, but the flying unit starts on the ground and not in the air.. So are we supposed to take a true line of sight from the ground, which means that you cannot really charge over units unless you're positioned on high ground? Or are we just supposed to accept that the actual charge doesn't start until it's up in the air and can see every target that are not hidden behind buildings, mountains etc.?
4) I'm a bit unsure about poison and strenght. Am I just supposed to understand that if the O&G wyvern hits with poison it'll proceed to modify armour with strenght just like normal (-3 due to S6).
5) Terror sort of baffles me. The rule states that it makes both terror and fear. Terror is on the turn it charges, but fear is every turn of CC. Am I to understand that Terror works on the turn you charge followed by fear in every turn of CC?.
6) Something weird I thought about: Kroxigors have ASL, what happens when you use Birona's Timewarp on them? Do they then just strike at their initiative? Can you then follow up and cast The Speed of Light on them and give them M12 (or is it 10?), WS10, I10, 7S and 4A each? That's brutal, but also not easy to get off.
7) Impact hit and Thunderstomp is accounted for as shooting due to the "unusual attack" ruling. Am I correct in that the templeguards AS3+ against shooting also works against a thunderstomp?
PART 6: A few questions we just need to have confirmed, it's nothing major:
1) My friend is sure to have read that if you charge someone in the front and in the back/rear they cannot be steadfast anymore. He couldn't find it in the BRB when I questioned him, but I just find it hard to believe that you need 2 ranks of at leats 5 models just to disrupt someone (and deny them their rank bonus), but can take any single model in the rear/flank of someone who is already engaged in CC and rob them of their steadfast.
So did he mix up the disruption rule or is there truly something else?
2) The ancient steg comes with giant blowpipes. These are not considere slow to fire so I assume they can stand and shoot or am I missing something here? My friend questioned it a bit. it did 3 wounds on his orc boar chariot that got a charge of on my steg. Lol.
3) The flying rules are a bit random. It says that you can charge over other units if you can see the unit you want to charge, but the flying unit starts on the ground and not in the air.. So are we supposed to take a true line of sight from the ground, which means that you cannot really charge over units unless you're positioned on high ground? Or are we just supposed to accept that the actual charge doesn't start until it's up in the air and can see every target that are not hidden behind buildings, mountains etc.?
4) I'm a bit unsure about poison and strenght. Am I just supposed to understand that if the O&G wyvern hits with poison it'll proceed to modify armour with strenght just like normal (-3 due to S6).
5) Terror sort of baffles me. The rule states that it makes both terror and fear. Terror is on the turn it charges, but fear is every turn of CC. Am I to understand that Terror works on the turn you charge followed by fear in every turn of CC?.
6) Something weird I thought about: Kroxigors have ASL, what happens when you use Birona's Timewarp on them? Do they then just strike at their initiative? Can you then follow up and cast The Speed of Light on them and give them M12 (or is it 10?), WS10, I10, 7S and 4A each? That's brutal, but also not easy to get off.
7) Impact hit and Thunderstomp is accounted for as shooting due to the "unusual attack" ruling. Am I correct in that the templeguards AS3+ against shooting also works against a thunderstomp?
Razordon
RipperDerek
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Re: Questions from a noob: Part 5 - new questions
1) I think he just mixed up the disruption rule.
2) They can stand and shoot.
3) You use true line of sight, from wherever the model is parked on the ground. There is no benefit to LOS from flying, except that flying models tend to be tall or raised up off the ground somewhat.
4) Yes, the modifier to AS is still based off the strength of the attack.
5) Yes, terror is the turn you charge (at the time you charge). Fear happens every close combat round, before the round is fought. Terror-causers get both benefits.
6) If you give them both ASL and ASF, the two cancel each other out. The Kroxigors then strike at initiative speed (which is 1, so probably still last).
7) There is a difference between "distributed in the same manner as a shooting attack" and actually being a shooting attack. The TG do not get the 3+ AS vs. stomp attacks or impact hits.
1) I think he just mixed up the disruption rule.
2) They can stand and shoot.
3) You use true line of sight, from wherever the model is parked on the ground. There is no benefit to LOS from flying, except that flying models tend to be tall or raised up off the ground somewhat.
4) Yes, the modifier to AS is still based off the strength of the attack.
5) Yes, terror is the turn you charge (at the time you charge). Fear happens every close combat round, before the round is fought. Terror-causers get both benefits.
6) If you give them both ASL and ASF, the two cancel each other out. The Kroxigors then strike at initiative speed (which is 1, so probably still last).
7) There is a difference between "distributed in the same manner as a shooting attack" and actually being a shooting attack. The TG do not get the 3+ AS vs. stomp attacks or impact hits.
Razordon
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Pinktaco said:
When they enter melee they drop their shields and use both hands to wield the mighty halberds!
Also to disrupt you need to have ranks yourself, and it does NOT remove steadfast. The only way to remove steadfast (that i know of) is to have more ranks thank your enemy yourself.
Terradon
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Re: Questions from a noob: Part 5 - new questions
Where do you find this?
While page 70 of the BRB describes the units planting down nicely on the ground, is also states that the unit might see over intervening units "depending on the flying model's height and/or position". It never states to measure LoS from the beasts grounded position and true LoS is measured from the eyes of the beast.
RipperDerek said:
Where do you find this?
While page 70 of the BRB describes the units planting down nicely on the ground, is also states that the unit might see over intervening units "depending on the flying model's height and/or position". It never states to measure LoS from the beasts grounded position and true LoS is measured from the eyes of the beast.