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8th Ed. Razordons vs Jav Skinks as redirectors

Discussion in 'Lizardmen Tactics' started by Zee Deveel, Jan 2, 2014.

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Razordons vs Jav Skinks as redirectors

  1. Razordons

    1 vote(s)
    5.9%
  2. Jav Skinks

    16 vote(s)
    94.1%
  1. Lizardmatt
    Troglodon

    Lizardmatt New Member

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    Huh?

    If my empire halberdier unit is wider than the skink skirmishing unit, and I put my wizard in the corner, you get 1 attack, and 1 support.
    You must maximize on the charge, and at best that leaves you only corner to corner with my wizard.
    A razordon can go corner to corner with the wizard (while touching 3 other guys) and dump his 2 attacks, and the 3-4 skink handlers all on the wizard.

    So attack score is:
    Razordon 2 S5 + 3/4 S3
    Skirmishing Skinks 2 S3


    -Matt
     
  2. olderplayer
    Chameleon Skink

    olderplayer New Member

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    The whole discussion about character assassin role kind of works against a redirector role. I just do not see that very much especially since the razor is typically moving only 6" at most and shooting most of the time and is often in a flanking or redirector role and often charged. Maybe on the odd day my opponent has in the army and leaves a naked lvl 1 or lvl 2 scroll caddy in a smaller bunker unit or lower I unit exposed on a cormer or through a gap wide enough for a solo razordon to charge through. It is more likely that a razor could earn its points when it charges (preferably in the flank) and either forces to flee or breaks/destroys a chaff/redirector unit or some mild threat like a goblin wolf chariot, mangler squig (march on it), or high elf eagle but then skinks might do the same with poison shooting without even getting into combat.

    Assuming it is a scroll caddy, the razor will still likely be hitting on 4's (I could only find a skink priest, night goblin and goblin shaman with WS2 or less) with maybe 5 attacks (assuming razor has not eaten a handler and no handlers have been removed on the 5+) and wounding on 2's with the razor and 4"s with the handlers. [Of course, charging a night goblin bunker unit likely sets off fanatics, which might be a good thing, but even one fanatic hit (and you usually must charge through them stopping at 8" and then moving straight forward to maximize combat) can potentially finish off a razor and 2 fanatics hitting will likely kill it.] The razor will average 0.83 wounds and the handlers will average another 0.75 wounds and the stomp will be directed to the unit for another 0.83 wounds. It turns out that the razor charge will kill the cheap T3 with no save hero only about one-thrid of the time in the first round of combat. In that cheap bunker unit with 6 or 8 attacks back (two ranks x 4 or 3), assuming passing the fear test, the razor unit will likely suffer 0.89 wounds with 8 attacks at S3 htting on 4's in return, so the razor unit likely wins combat in the first round but the charged unit likely remains steadfast and does not break. If the bunker unit has 4+ ranks, which is common for a skaven, zombie, skelly, or goblin unit, then there is a substantial risk of the razor unit losing combat due to greater ranks in the charged unit. The razor will finish off the cheap hero in the second round of combat most of the time assuming something is not able to counter charge the razor or nerf it with magic or augment the hero's unit somehow.

    It is more likely that a razor might get through to charge a war machine where the crew has a more limited number of attacks back and the razor has a better chance of winning combat enough to break the war machine or at least stop it from firing for a turn and wiinning on the next turn. But one can often get as good of results with 20 or more poison shots at range (javs with no move and shoot penalty, hit on 5's at range, doing 3.33 autowounds and another 0.56 wounds after rolls to wound of hits) will more reliably kill the war machine by that means.
     
  3. Lizardmatt
    Troglodon

    Lizardmatt New Member

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    If you're going to take a single razordon to redirect, finding something else for it to do besides redirect isn't a bad idea.
    The razordon with extra handler is averaging just under 2 wounds against a T3 wizard.
    As for losing skinks to shooting, I'm not sure I would be shooting much with a single razordon. A very small handful of S4 hits isn't worth it if you've got the potential to hunt a wizard or warmachine.

    I still don't see me wasting rare points on a single razordon.

    -Matt
     
  4. Pulstar
    Skink

    Pulstar New Member

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    At 50 points, the Giant eagle is the number one redirector in the game.

    AT the same 50 points, a Jav skink cohort is number 1A.

    Making them Skinks skirmishers does make them better at all of the other duties that you want your chaff to do, but for straight redirector duty cheap is the way to go.

    Another way to put it is you can redirect better with 3 cohort units then you can with 2 skirmishers for the same points.

    Having said all that I voted for Razordons because they needed some love.
     
  5. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    They have an illustrated tactica written by none other than Spawning of Bob himself. That's more love than Skirmishers would receive from 100 votes.
     
  6. Lizardmatt
    Troglodon

    Lizardmatt New Member

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    #1?
    Fell Bats at 32 points for the unit is tough to beat.
    Gnoblars at 25 points and not panicking anything is pretty sweet.
    But the real #1 of redirecting your enemies plans has to be the 65 point O&G rare choice of... Mangler Squig. Those guys block and disrupt a whole area. Sadly, a good chunk of that area is often your own.

    -Matt
     

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