Discussion Sacrifices to Old Ones other than Sotek?

[Valvorik]

Is sacrificing living beings something the Children of the Old Ones (lizard people) were doing before starting to do so to Sotek? Looking through different editions, sacrifice appears mentioned mostly in association with Sotek.

I ask in order to figure out if a lizard folk site abandoned circa -1500, when according to the Great Plan the realignment of continents was carried out with some side effects (hee hee), and thus before Sotek rose, would have evidence of sacrifices or not.

Sacrificing creatures to the Old Ones seems unlikely to have been a "pre-Cataclysm" practice (the various races were not created for that purpose).

Any thoughts or answers welcomed.

Rob

 

[n810]

I am fairly certain that sacrificing started with Tenehuan and the cult of Sotec, back in the Lustria campaign book.

 

[Valvorik]

Thanks!

I bow to your many Likes and honour your Trophies, elder one.

 

[Scalenex]

Look at real world history. A sacrifice of a pig was a big deal when a single unit of livestock had a significant impact on the survival of a family unit over the next year. This lead to the ultimate sacrifice being a willing person from the community.

On the other end of the spectrum, sacrificing an enemy, I see as an extension of sacrifices war trophies. I do not see Lizardmen having a strong trophy culture. Especially since there were relatively few battles between the Great Catastrophe and the coming of the Skaven to Lustria. I imagine sacrifices to the Old Ones would be a mostly non-martial nature.

I figure Chotec as the god of the sun would have sacrificial fires. They would throw in sacrifices that smell good when burned, change the color of the smoke or things that are dark colored (to represent Chotec driving away darkness).

Cauxuatn the predator would appreciate tasty meats or even live prey species sacrificed. Rather than a fire, I see a sacrifice involving feeding a sacred animal kept in the city just to eat sacred sacrifices (lucky creature unless it gets sacrificed eventually), or even left in the wild tied up for random wild animals. Itzl the generic beast deity might be similar or he could take symbolic offerings to bless the creatures of the jungle with general health and fertility. Real world ancient cultures had lots of plants and inanimate things that symbolized these things.

Uxmac, the Old One's messenger would probably not receive sacrifices from a group but I can imagine scouts whispering their news to the darkness once before reporting it (Uxmac gets his own briefing of all important messages).

Xocha the spirit of Stone would probably have sacrifices buried or thrown off a cliff. Not sure what the sacrifices would be. Intricately carved statues? Food (returning to the earth)? As the Arbriter of Duty he would be more likely than most Old Ones to receive a live sacrifice of a willing Skink or Saurus.

Xapati the god of revenge. I think a Saurus or Skink might cut their palm or tail and bleed on an altar symbolically when making an oath of vengeance than issue a prayer of thanks when they kill their foe. They might sacrifice a piece of their kill to Xaptali afterwards. I picture a fire here, but I can't explain why.

Huanchi as the god of night and earth would not use sacrificial fires. I see sacrifices being buried or hurled in a deep pit. If the sacrifice is meat (or a creature), they could be fed to a jaguar. I don't see live captives being fed to Jaguars. I don't think it would be a great sacrifice if bones and clothes and stuff was left behind. Generally speaking, I believe sacrifices should not leave debris behind to be seen unless that's the whole point (like a bunch of bodies on stakes lining a perimeter.

I don't want Tepoc and Potec should have as sacrifices or how it should occur but as the magic gods their offerings should be the most abstract and mysterious.

Tzunki would either receive pourings of blessed waters or take sacrifices in a deep pool. He might receive the eyeballs of defeated enemies or even Skinks who died nobly in his service.

Tlazcotl is a battle god defined by his patience and determination. I don't think he'd receive things. He would receive actions. Ritual fasts or feats of endurance performed in his name.

 

[Valvorik]

The lizardmen grew, mostly by superstition and perhaps lack of correction from the Slann, to view the Old Ones as gold-like (in terms of how other races view gods) and would honour them with rituals, which may have involved "sacrifice" to show how important the Old One was, and acting largely in the "empty spaces" between Slann instruction.

As you note this may have been actions "pleasing" to the Old Ones. As the elves originally seem to have been most-tutored, their style of "honour the god by being with the god in your thoughts", "embodying the god in your actions" seems to me to be likeliest closer to the style of metaphysical thought that would have originally dominated.

So yes, for example, Tlazcotl (utter determination 5th edition, the impassive, patient and determined 7th), - be stoic, patient and determined in battle and thank him when this succeeds, learn how you failed to be enough of this nature when you failed originally, then as the "silence" grows and continues perhaps a bit more etc.

7th edition p.36-37 suggest sacrifice would have started after the Cataclysm (the Old Ones sacrificed themselves for us, so they get sacrificed to) and does mention sacrifices to Old Ones generally but not specifying "living ones" etc.

PS, Uxmac the "messenger who will return" has long interested me but we don't have anything more than that officially, do we?