7th Ed. Salamanders Unit Strength

[Itzi-Bitzi]

Hi I was wondering if anyone could straighten out my understanding of the unit strength of both the Salamander and the Razordon. I am aware that in the FAQ it says they are unit strength 3 which means when shooting at a Salamander it loses the -1 to hit skirmishers penalty. My question is whether the Hunting Party is a total of unit strength 3 or the Salamander itself unit strength 3 and therefore with three handlers becomes unit strength 6 as I don't believe that would be right. And so if the Salamander Hunting Pack is Unit strength 3 does it lose any of it's unit strength once handlers are killed much the same way as a monster with hero killed etc.
This would help out a lot and clear up an argument I have had with my regular opponent. We rolled a dice to decide last game and I said I would try to find out before our next game.
Thanks

 

[Caneghem]

Since the hunting packs are not described as warmachines, the salamander is US3 and each skink is US1. That means a salamander with 4 handlers is US7. They are not a bad unit to plow into a flank or rear if they have nothing to shoot at, because you get to apply the -1 or -2 to the enemy combat res. They are still skirmishers for the purposes of moving through terrain and line of sight.

The reason warmachines have a unit strength equal to their crew, is because without crew the machine is just an inanimate object. Salamanders without crew are still salamanders, so yes, you definitely add them together.

 

[strewart]

Edit: Beaten to it.

I'm not so sure about a flank charge, without negating ranks the skinks will probably just give away more combat res than they are worth... You could dump them behind a combat and auto-destroy any fleeing unit though right?

 

[Caneghem]

You can park them in position to crossfire as well, but in combat remember that with hunting packs, the handlers stay behind their beast. So they can't be attacked unless the salamander dies.

 

[strewart]

You are correct, I did forget that the skinks line up behind. Might be worth putting them into a flank if there is nothing to shoot at, they will contribute +1 for a flank charge and whatever the sal/raz manages to kill. Might even give you an outnumber bonus.

 

[Itzi-Bitzi]

Wow... that makes them even better than I had thought. That was how I had read the rules as salamander US3 and US1 for each handler but my regular opponnent thought it was US3 the whole model meaning it was limited in it's uses (still rocked though) but now there are so many more options available like I thought such as flank charges, crossfire etc.
Thanks so much for clearing that all up for me.

 

[Caneghem]

Wow... that makes them even better than I had thought. That was how I had read the rules as salamander US3 and US1 for each handler but my regular opponnent thought it was US3 the whole model meaning it was limited in it's uses (still rocked though) but now there are so many more options available like I thought such as flank charges, crossfire etc.
Thanks so much for clearing that all up for me.

Yep, so long as it retains that magical US5. That's why it is so worth it to put the extra handler to give you that one more wound before losing US5.

 

[Itzi-Bitzi]

I have another question regarding the salamanders. If you are charged or charge, do you have to rank up with salamander and skink handlers 5 accross if the enemy unit is 5 accross as per the skirmishers rules in the main rulebook or do the skinks rank up behind the salamander as per the army book (ie cannot be targetted by attacks in the combat until the salamander is taken out).
I am being told by games workshop store staff that only if the enemy unit is only 2-3 accross can you rank the skinks behind salamander and therefore in combat the enemy targets all their attacks against skink handlers and wins by combat res.
I'm not worried either way I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing and not being screwed over. It just seems to contradict as why would it say in the army book that the handlers rank up behind the salamander if they don't! I would read it that you only get to attack skink handlers if you were to charge the Salamander's flank or rear.

 

[strewart]

The army book always overrules the main rulebook, so the skinks still go behind the salamanders. GW staff are notorious for having no idea what they are talking about. It is unfortunate when they are being used as the 'impartial judge' in store matches, but there is little you can do.

 

[Caneghem]

Yep, the book says they ALWAYS rank up behind the Salamander. Now if they were to charge you from two different directions, the first charge would go against the Salamander and the skinks would rank up behind. Then the other charge would crash into the ranked up skink handlers.

 

[Itzi-Bitzi]

Cool...
That is what I thought... thanks very much. At least now I know what is the correct way to rank them up in combat now...
When I'm Playing in GW store next I will inform them of what I've found out and hopefully they will see the light. Otherwise I'll have to do it how they believe when i play there, and the correct way everywhere else.
Thanks for clearing that up!