Discussion Saurian Ancients Fluff: Elf, Human, Dwarf Slaves?

[Warden]

Rampant speculation to follow:

Not sure how many 9th Age players are still active on this forum, but I have a question about the Saurian Ancients lore, followed by another question on how it pertains to Warhammer 8th/AOS lore.

I don't know much about the 9th Age setting, but in reading a summary over on 1d4chan I learned that the setting in "the 9th Age" is divided up into "9" ages, and starts like this:

on History:

In the Unmeasured Age the Coatl (Old Ones) and their servants the Saurians (Lizardmen), used the mortal races as slaves to mine and construct their ziggurats. The slaves were Elves, humans, Dwarves (used for mining gems for the Saurians), Ogres, and Orcs. Giants ruled the continent of Vetia (The Old World). When a great comet fell and separated the continents resulting in the Shattered Sea (the Vortex) cutting the Saurian homeland into two halves called Silexia (Naggaroth) and Virentia (Lustria), the mortals united and rebelled successfully.

later on in the Saurian Ancients lore section:

• Saurians ruled the world in the first age from ziggurats. Their slave races, Ogres, Dwarves, humans, Orcs, and Elves, rebelled against them after a great comet fell. Whether this is the Saurians themselves or an Old Ones expy is unknown, as a myth calls them "Venerable Ones". Its suggested by a myth that they were revered rather than hated as the rest of the lore stated, and that they fell due to some natural disaster. Ancient artifacts depict Saurians fighting against the forces of the Dark Gods despite them only appearing in the world recently (by Dwarf reckoning).

• Saurians still exist throughout the world, including Vetia although most are in Virentia. They are virtually unchanged from ancient myths.

On to my questions:

1) 9th Age: so in this setting, the Lizardmen/Saurian Ancients are the big bads? It seems like many of the old races (elves, dwarves, maybe some wise humans) have old lore and knowledge about their ancient slave owners, and actively hunt them down/plunder their ancient sites for loot and out of revenge?

2) Warhammer 8th Setting and into AOS: This one is a bit more tricky: what are the chances that the old races (elves, dwarves, and humans) were also originally slaves to the Lizardmen?

Here me out:

• The Old Ones created the Lizardmen to be their servants, but "servants" only in name. They were basically slaves. The Slann did magic like they were told and ran their cities, the saurus exterminated who they were told to exterminate, and the kroxigors and skinks carried out their menial duties and built temples like they were supposed to do. They were basically willing slaves.

• The Lizardmen, under the orders of the Old Ones, created the old races to populate the earth and carry out their bidding. They were taught to use magic, mine underground, and found cities just like the Lizardmen races. They were educated in the ways of the world. WHY? There are no records that exist of those ages, only the elves vaguely remember the Lizardmen exist but then only barely. What if the Lizardmen bred these races to fulfill more roles that the Old Ones needed (more slaves to do their bidding) and the elves/dwarfs/humans of today just don't remember?

• It is never clear if the Old Ones knew that Chaos was on the way or not. But what if the Old Ones knew that the Chaos Gods were coming to defeat them, so they biologically engineered a bunch of warmblooded races in order to grow themselves more worshippers?

• Their is an old story about a slann using lobotomized human slaves (earlier Slann editions I think). Maybe this was an experiment to make humans more docile? Maybe some of the more zealous Slann were upset at how much "free will" the warmbloods displayed in comparison to their cold-blooded superiors, and the Slann ordered certain modifications to be made?

I am basically ranting at this point, but to sum it up, our Lizardmen army books in 6th-8th editions are written mostly from the viewpoints that the Lizards are the ancient good guys, always standing staunchly against the forces of Chaos, the Ultimate Enemy. I think it would be really interesting taking The 9th Age's approach, showing that while the Lizardmen/Saurian Ancients might have had great ENDS in mind (defeating the the ruinious powers at the end of days), the MEANS they chose (breeding and overlording over millions of lizard, human, elf, dwarf, and other slaves) were not always what we warmbloods would consider "good."



EDIT: I also like how the Saurian Ancient civilization was ended by a meteor classic Cretaceous callback

 

[thedarkfourth]

Glad to see there is interest in 9th age background. It hasn't been completed yet, but when it is, it will be very cool I believe. Saurians in particular have yet to be developed but I happen to know that that process should start soon.

The fluff you quoted is mostly right. Saurians did rule in a "dawn age" that few mortal cultures remember, and were overthrown after a not-at-all-cretaceous comet strike (the one that created the shattered sea, if you've seen the map). However coatl are slann, not old ones. Also it's not true that "most are in virentia" - they actually live all over the world, moving them away from purely mesoamerican inspiration. More details incoming as I get them

 

[Warden]

Glad to see there is interest in 9th age background. It hasn't been completed yet, but when it is, it will be very cool I believe. Saurians in particular have yet to be developed but I happen to know that that process should start soon.

The fluff you quoted is mostly right. Saurians did rule in a "dawn age" that few mortal cultures remember, and were overthrown after a not-at-all-cretaceous comet strike (the one that created the shattered sea, if you've seen the map). However coatl are slann, not old ones. Also it's not true that "most are in virentia" - they actually live all over the world, moving them away from purely mesoamerican inspiration. More details incoming as I get them

I would love to hear more. I am particularly interested what influences the Saurians are going to be taking there culture from (really hoping its still Mayan/other Mesoamerican cultures!).

It sounds like they are upping the "sentient-dinosaur"-parallels, and maybe reducing the "ancient aliens" influences of the army? I am mostly good with that too, not sure how others would feel about it.