8th Ed. Saurus oldblood looking to port an army over from 7th

[Thatguyoverthere11]

Hey all,

The first models I ever bought were skinks with bows waaay back when. It evolved into an army that had a Slaan carried by templeguard at its head... He was a close combat monster back then. The 7th ed book came out and he lost his combat characteristics and could only cast... But I played on and eventually lost sight of the hobby during college.

I actually posted quite a bit on this forum back in 2008 but I don't know where that's all gone. I don't even remember my screen name anymore haha.

I've been playing 40k solid for about 5 years now and the new additions are making me worried about the direction of the game and so I'm looking to dig out all my old stuff and start playing again as there looks to be a group not too far from where I live.

So, I'm curious, where should I start? I got the army book in a trade and there looks to be a lot of cool options. Right now I'm looking at the following.

T'etto'eko to buff my magic phase and vanguard my salamanders (own the manders)
skinks and saurus, the usual lot (owned)
Cold one riders (owned), as they rock. I'd need a cowboy or two. I'm actually looking at putting an oldblood on a flying carpet with the stegadon helm... is that a good idea? haha
terradons and rippers
2 bastilodons
a stegadon (owned) or maybe two
a slaan (owned) definitely, templeguard (owned) to put him in

Are flying skink priests good anymore? I've heard mixed reviews on carnosaurs too, I have one of the older metal ones I could try.

The issue is I'm not trying to spend a ton of money on this and I'm mostly looking for an interesting list that will have entertaining games. I've read through some of the tactics articles and I've already found some combos but maybe someone could give me a direction to go?

 

[godswearhats]

My advice is to put together an army with what you've got, and don't buy any new models yet. Play some games of 8th edition, and then start looking at what gaps there are in your list.

 

[Sleboda]

The above is good advice. I will add to it a bit.

When you are testing things out, don't give in to the temptation to just play Battleline, to ignore the special terrain rules, and so on. Play 8th in all its glory. You very well may find that some things you would judge as crap or as powerful in a vanilla setting (a setting that looks a lot more like 7th than 8th) really shine or really stink if you are playing the full current game.


Just as a quick example - You may lean toward a list that has tons of skink skirmishers, lots of dinosaurs, etc, but little in the way of units with banners. If you roll up Blood and Glory as your scenario (and ALWAYS roll up the scenario after making your list since doing it in reverse completely negates the balancing factor of random scenarios) and have almost no Fortitude, suddenly your list is not good.

 

[Thatguyoverthere11]

I played a few games early on in 8th, back when skaven was ridiculous.

I had a budding Skaven force right before I got out of it and I remember losing to bretonnia, turn 1 during THEIR shooting phase before I got to do anything... Dwellers and trebuchets killed my general and his whole unit resulting in -general, - bsb, -1 standard which broke fortitude... sucks.


Anyway, I totally agree with playing the game it was meant to be played. A lot of the 'bad' things about the watchtower and other scenarios is that it makes it harder to win with the 'power' builds who may not be able to take advantage of the special rules. I'm definitely trying to take a 'toolkit' army that has a unit to deal with anything.


For instance, I don't know if dark elf skirmishers (forget their names...) are killers anymore but that's what I used to drop rocks on all the time. They auto-hit D3 times which often would kill the whole group. I also used to break ranks with cheap flanking units of skrox. Cascading combats was incredibly powerful and I used to set those up all the time with well placed fliers and characters charging out of units.

Fantasy is really fun, I'm excited to get back into it.

 

[olderplayer]

Sleboda gave good advice. The mentioned list of models and units is pretty sound, except that I would add some Krox for a small flanking unit that hits hard or for a skink with Krox unit with Tetto or even a cheap unit of ten skink cohorts with one Krox for increased LD and some punch. Lots of skinks, suarus and Temple Guard are usually the base of the army. For lizardmen, I really think that most armies need a solid temple guard unit with the slann and the units and games are larger than they were in 8th edition. Consider whether you want spears and shields or handweapon and shield on core saurus. Also, with the changes, core skinks in cohorts (rank and file) and skirmishers with handweapon shield and javelins have some advantages (no movement penalties to shooting, better armour save and parry save, can stand and shoot at chargers at close range when charged).

Consider an army without a slann but with oldbloods and scar vets with skink priests (now can take lore of beasts and heavens) with dispel scroll on one and cube of darkness on the other for magic defense, including a Tetto army. If you run Tetto, consider a larger core unit of ten skinks per rank with Tetto in the second rank with 2 Krox on either side and additional skink ranks behind the Krox or a more narrow formation six wide in front with one Krox on each side of Tetto and a lot of ranks behind. A cheap skink priest BSB is a cheap choice in a bunker skink skiirmisher unit.

Chameleon skinks (2 units of 6 or one unit of ten) and one or two units of 2 or even 3 salamanders are still good complements to the army and cold one riders, especially with a scar vet or oldblood on a cold one with a great weapon and 1+ armour save can be very effective.

I suspect that you will find playing a slann with fewer disciplines and magic items in order to save points and allow you to add an old blood to the army makes the army more balanced and competitive. Old bloods are under-rated and one of the better fighting lords in the game for the points cost.

A lot of games are at 2400 and 2500 points, instead of 2000 or 2250 in 7th ed. 8th edition takes some getting used to from 6th and 7th ed but after a while I began to really appreciate and prefer it. Lizardmen, with their low I, really benefit from being able to step up and hit back and supporting attack rules in 8th ed. Larger units with a lot of cheap models they are deep in ranks will hold up even after repeatedly losing combat, becuase they test for breaking on their leadership or their general's leadership if within 12" without penalty as long as they have more ranks than the opposing unit (steadfast). This really changes the game dynamic. While larger rank and file units are preferred in 8th edition and small cav units are a bit disadvantaged (a situation I hope they address in 9th ed but giving them something on the charge or ability to break ranks on flank and rear with one rank given their depth on models taking the position of two ranks of infantry, having a lot of smaller specialized units is really important to controlling movement and blocking movement in the game and small but eilte units perform a lot of essnetial roles, including clearing out small oppoing units (chaff) that get in the way of your best units getting into combat.


On 8th edition:

I and many "competitive" players don't care for a few of the six scenarios in the BRB, watchtower being my least favorite, but I'm really big on making sure terrain fits with the 8th edition game in terms of obstacles (fence or wall), water hazards (marsh, river or pond which favors LM), forest, building, and impassible terrain. Some of the magical terrain is a bit over-the-top or annoying and can imbalance the game, so we usually put only one or no piece of magical or mysterious terrain on tables. When 7 or 8 terrain pieces are placed and properly designed, then the table looks great and the game becomes extremely balanced, especially with the new army books (WoC being perhaps the only book with some OP models/units but terrain helps counter that and nothing is OP like we saw in 7th edition with VC and Daemons). It really changes the dynamic from lining up and marching hordes across to fight each other or shooting away from a bunker/castle formation, which is what the billiard table set up at some tournaments and some players seem to want (including when placing terrain alternatively). It is one way to deal with cannonballs that are too easy to hit now with no guess range and no horizontal scatter, since impassible terrain and buildings stop cannonballs (although models in a builidng hit take hits) and obstacles termporarily stop cannonballs (one time then are destroyed). That is really important if you like and want to run monsters, like bastis and stegs.

I find most of my games in 8th edition go long (unless someone blows up the slann with a miscast on turn 1 or a cannonball takes out a greater daemon general on turn one in a Daemon army) and are more closely fought than in 7th edition. Most of our five-game tournaments modify the scenarios a bit (like not having to roll for units being placed in reserve at the start with the diagonal deployment of Meeting Engagement, having players divide their units into zones similar to Dawn Attack but not based on random dice, and dropping watchtower by converting it to a battleline context with an objective at the center for bonus points, not a win condition) and add objectives for bonus points to attempt to balance games and give those losing a chance to pick up some points with play.

Magic is probably one of the big issues with 8th ed GW is likely to address in 9th ed. Most of the magic is fine but there are some spells in some lores that can be over-the-top autowins-type spell if they go off and the opponent rolls poorly on a characteristic test or similar effect. The newer army books no longer have spells that autokill multiwound models with no ward save allowed anymore. Dwellers below from Lore of Life and Dreaded 13th in Skaven are two spells people tend to complain the most about. Lizardmen armies are vulnerable to the Lore of Death spell purple sun as well. Some argue that the big spells are needed to balance the game and deter larger units but some of those big spells tend to be over-the-top if they don't allow a save of any kind. A lot of gaming stores and tournaments have house rules that charactrers and sometimes champs can take a look out sir if in a unit that would allow them to take a look out sir for template hits and such or only allow the character (or champion) model to die on a roll of a 6 when faced with a characteristic test type of attack that causes multiple wounds. Some rules even limit one to throwing only five dice at spells to reduce the chance of IF and to allow more chance to dispel those spells. I've even some house rules where they simply remove the number six spells from all lores from the game. If you roll a six, then you either get to choose a spell or roll again.

 

[Thatguyoverthere11]

Nice post older player! 8th sounds amazing!

I'll type up a list tonight and really look the book over and respond tomorrow.

One last thing for tonight. What is everyone's thoughts on the ethereal slann?

 

[Sleboda]

I can't speak to the use of the ethereal slann as I do not use a slann at all, but I did want to highlight something oldplayer said:

I find most of my games in 8th edition go long (unless someone blows up the slann with a miscast on turn 1 or a cannonball takes out a greater daemon general on turn one in a Daemon army) and are more closely fought than in 7th edition.

This is true, and I would say even remains true when the disasters he said come to pass. 8th edition games often have major swings. Games you were darn near certain were over in turn two can completely reverse before it ends. I would really strongly suggest that even in games where you "know" it's over that you push on. Clear the negativity from your mind and see what you can pull off. Lots of the rules are designed to encourage long, bloody affairs.

Just for instance, there is the dead of fled rule. If your 500 point horde breaks in turn two after losing 20 models, but manages to escape, you still have not given up a single VP! If that unit is on the table, running of not, even if just a single model remains, none of its VPs are awarded. So, don't despair when a purple sun hits - your capabilities may have diminished, but it's not over yet - not by a long shot!


I can't tell you how many times I was ready to throw in the towel, opted to keep playing (after all, it's still a good bit of fun to roll dice and kill stuff even if you lose!), and managed a draw or even a win in the end.

8th edition: It's not over until it's over.

 

[Khornefed]

The first models I ever bought were skinks with bows waaay back when...........eventually lost sight of the hobby during college.

I've been playing 40k solid for about 5 years now and the new additions are making me worried about the direction of the game and so I'm looking to dig out all my old stuff and start playing again as there looks to be a group not too far from where I live.

So, I'm curious, where should I start? I got the army book in a trade and there looks to be a lot of cool options.

Welcome back to the better side of GW gaming! I bought a whole ~4500 pt lizzie army (assembled but not painted) based on the 7th ed book about 7 months before the last one came out, and held my breath (well, sort of). I am happy to say that the new book will accommodate old models just fine, and the builds are endless in variety, so you don't really need to buy anything.

Take the advice given previously and play a few games. Do some proxy of models (maybe some of those 40k thingamajiggies on cardboard squares) that you think are interesting. Also keep in mind we are likely to see 9th Ed rules come out 2014.