8th Ed. Saurus vs Elite Troops

[Eladimir]

I was playing a 400 pt warband game last nite vs orcs and the big matchup turned out to be 14 (7x2) Black orcs vs my 18 saurus and was destroyed.
Higher initative, higher WS, higher strength. 3's to hit 3's wound 6+/6++ saves only. I lost combat twice by 5 and lost terribly.

What do you guys use againist elite infantry? The slann in TG would be great if you have it fielded. But with just saurus and skinks to field I'm at a loss.

 

[novatomato]

Elite infantry needs to be hit hard or from a distance.
That being said we're looking at a couple things. The first being Stegs, the impact hits should be able to put a nice dent in the units but plan to have something coming in on the side to support. The support should be something like Cold One Cav, or even regular Saurus Warriors, the fewer attacks that come from a flank won't be enough to trouble a unit of Saurus.
Secondly we can turn to Kroxigors, particularly in units of skink cohorts, a nice 24 strong cohort with three Kroxs in it can soak up the damage directed at them and deal a fair bit as well. The skinks have numbers to guarantee steadfast and still will always get that 6+ wardsave so only slightly worse of a save than the saurus, meanwhile the kroxs S6 will be punching through all armor save WoC with shields and some Dwarf units (Iron Breakers I think). They'd be hitting on 4's mostly 5's at the worst but then wounding on 3's or 2's, plus they have three attacks each. that doesn't include the skinks attacks which are pure gravy.
Lastly we have Salamanders, and I won't say anymore cause they pretty much speak for themselves.

 

[Eladimir]

I had disgarded Skrox as a solution but what you said makes sense. With the massive skink losses though your likely gonna lose combat. Which is fine with the steadfast. But does that mean the steg ramming the side will have to roll a leadership -3 etc test?

The steg/CoR fleeing isn't the worse anyways cause they can rally and charge back in.

 

[novatomato]

each unit has to test on its own I believe but with a steg charging in the flank you've probably bumped your own combat res by a good portion (a minimum of 2, one for flank one for charge, then add on any deaths caused by impact hits, thunderstomp and regular attacks)

 

[Tubbe]

Stegs are stubborn anyway.

 

[Skink Brave Itxy]

I was playing a 400 pt warband game last nite vs orcs and the big matchup turned out to be 14 (7x2) Black orcs vs my 18 saurus and was destroyed.
Higher initative, higher WS, higher strength. 3's to hit 3's wound 6+/6++ saves only. I lost combat twice by 5 and lost terribly.

What do you guys use againist elite infantry? The slann in TG would be great if you have it fielded. But with just saurus and skinks to field I'm at a loss.

Honestly, while heavy infantry of any kind are a tough nut to crack, this just sounds like it was mostly to bad luck with the dice. You had more models, they were stronger, and they had more attacks (assuming the statline on the GW website is accurate).

But I often put a character in my Temple Guard, if not a Slann (which happens very rarely) then a Saurus hero.

In a situation such as yours, unless your opponent has a character in the unit (and if you don't either), you could get by with something relatively minor hitting them on the flank, like some Skinks. Hit them on the flank or rear, and they'll be in a bad situation, no matter how strong they are.

 

[Batu]

Elite infantry needs to be hit hard or from a distance.
That being said we're looking at a couple things. The first being Stegs, the impact hits should be able to put a nice dent in the units but plan to have something coming in on the side to support. The support should be something like Cold One Cav, or even regular Saurus Warriors, the fewer attacks that come from a flank won't be enough to trouble a unit of Saurus.
Secondly we can turn to Kroxigors, particularly in units of skink cohorts, a nice 24 strong cohort with three Kroxs in it can soak up the damage directed at them and deal a fair bit as well. The skinks have numbers to guarantee steadfast and still will always get that 6+ wardsave so only slightly worse of a save than the saurus, meanwhile the kroxs S6 will be punching through all armor save WoC with shields and some Dwarf units (Iron Breakers I think). They'd be hitting on 4's mostly 5's at the worst but then wounding on 3's or 2's, plus they have three attacks each. that doesn't include the skinks attacks which are pure gravy.
Lastly we have Salamanders, and I won't say anymore cause they pretty much speak for themselves.

Some good advice there.

Skrox unit will cost almost as much as an elite unit. Skinks will die in buckets and you will be steadfast for a round? Maybe 2? Then your unit is going to get crushed, not be steadfast and be blown off the field like the craptastic unit it is.

Skrox are a point sink that wont generally make its points back. While the Krox are a mighty STR 6
They are WS 3 so only half will hit. Even with 3 krox you will hit with 4.5. That will NOT make up for the losses the skinks should suffer. The skinks WS2 T2 are going to be obliterated. So unless your going after a small High AS unit like knights, you will get your ass handed to you in a couple of rounds.

Better to leave the Skrox unit at home and for less points bring a steg, sally or more spear saurus.

God forbid that Skrox unit gets flanked. Then your done before you even start.

Krox units (6 krox) are far more effective then a combo skrox unit.

Skrox units simply blow

 

[Bauhus]

I have to (respectfully) disagree with your comment regarding skrox


We can do a quick list of pros and cons with Skrox units.



High movement - If this unit is hit on it's flank, then the situation, not the unit has gone awry

Javs - Lets not forget that because of wonderful 8th edition, you can ALWAYS stand and shoot, and with poison attacks? Bring it on!

Cheap - You don't need to pay any additional points to make them come with shields, so while a 6+/6++ save isn't exactly Chaos knight worthy, it's still pretty darn good.

KROXIGOR! - Sure you don't get a stomp attack with these guys, but then ... you can't be stomped! And attacks can only be allocated to models in base contact, so you pretty much give up a stomp attack, for a cheap missile screen.

Those things said, not a bad CORE choice



The bad:


Low toughness - Yes, skinks are built about as durable as wood elf pajamas, you SHOULD expect to take casualties


Leadership - Not exactly this units strong point, but we do get the Krox's LD instead of the skinks.



I'm not saying that a Skrox unit is the Be-all-and-end-all of a Lizardman army, but I think it's about HOW you use them that makes them so wonderful. And yes, I think they only REALLY shine in slightly higher point games. Life and Light make this unit a KILLER. I myself, played a game where I used Lore of Light, and this unit ate an 18 strong block of Chaos Warriors over 2 turns. For every 3 skinks I lost, my Krox would kill an equal ammount of warriors, and with the combat rez in my favor, I found a new respect for em.


The long and short of it, they're a Hammer unit, not an anvil. And they're best used in conjunction with magical buffs.


my 2 cents

-Bauhus

 

[Coatl]

agreed. if you throw a skrox unit into h2h expecting them to crush a similar sized unit or something thats decently tough, your just going to disappoint yourself. use them as they are now intended, to deliver the kroxigors. if you run a unit with only 3 kroxigors in it, throw it at units that will take some damage from the 3 kroxigors (monsters, bells, furnaces, lone characters, fast cav, flanking units, etc), then any skink attacvks are bonuses. like bauhus said, its how you use them. if you use them to grind out another unit, chances are your sacrificing them so it better be for a worthy cause.

 

[morglumnecksnapper]

I`ve been using a few skrox units, and they´ve always made excellent performance.

Usually I put them upp against monsters and similar, a against strength 5+ opponents they really do their job well. Since strength 5+ mills your saurus into flour at a cost at 11-12 points each. Let the skinks take the blow instead only suffering 5point losses/per skink.

For Example putting saurus against a Hellpit or doomwheel is a total disaster, however if you put a skrox unit in the Hellpit or Doomwheel, you´r gonna have the exact same losses as with saurus. Just that you loose 5 point/model instead of 11-12. On top of that you´r able to put some wounds on the bastard, something that´s unlikley for your saurus.

 

[KroxigorsFTW]

For Example putting saurus against a Hellpit or doomwheel is a total disaster, however if you put a skrox unit in the Hellpit or Doomwheel, you´r gonna have the exact same losses as with saurus. Just that you loose 5 point/model instead of 11-12. On top of that you´r able to put some wounds on the bastard, something that´s unlikley for your saurus.

Actually, against the Hellpit you're probably going to lose less, due to the large amount of I tests it likes to cause, and the Skinks exponentially greater I.
But that's just me being pedantic. I <3 my Skrox.

OP: I think in warband games, a Sallie is your best bet.

 

[T`hinker`er]

I agree with the posters who laud the SKrox unit as a better alternative to Saurus for grinding it out (steadfast) against elite infantry. Just make sure to whittle the enemy down a bit first with your javelin skinks or a salamander. And at some point you may need another unit (Saurus or Steg) hitting the elite unit in the flank to break it.

One note of caution: Unlike in our earlier army book, the Krox can be hit back, even thought they are in the 2nd rank! True, they have T4 and a 4+ save and 3 wounds each. But they are not invulnerable. Beware.

 

[Zed]

The Kroxigor cannot be hit back. The only reason you think they can be hit back is because they have the Great Reach rule in the Army Book. The Errata have removed this rule.

 

[T`hinker`er]

Thanks!!! That's what I thought, but my buddies were telling me otherwise, but apparently we need to re-read the errata before our next game!

 

[Arli]

Your krox are safe until one of them has to step up to the front rank!