That'd make pink horrors horrendously expensive, they're already a 140 baseline and they're not that good witout their splitting (even ifa 140 might be a tad cheap for the splitting)
Just looked it up i other places, apparently I am wrong.you do need reinforcement points for the blue horrors.
well that just sucks.... can't they just make pink horrors 200 points then? Still cheaper than paying for both pink + blue + brimstone horrors & at least it doesn't feel quite as lame. Hell why would you even field pink horrors if you don't plan on making use of the split rule.
I've been wanting to add some stormcast to my list since then. I will probably replace their heads with seraphon heads when I get there, but could be a while. I was thinking the Judicators would have skink heads and the close combat guys would have saurus or guard heads. My understanding of the lore is that stormcast can come from any order faction from a previous life. So I thought it would be cool if some lizardmen who became stormcast eternals were helping out their clan from a previous lifetime. I got bit by the Tzeentch bug when I got silver tower. This will end up being my second AoS army when I get to it. I've got models for tzeentch and warriors of chaos. I'd like to have a pure tzeentch list and also a combined mortal wounds list that would include units from all the chaos factions. My tzeentch/chaos army will be Japanese/samurai themed. I was aiming to be able to play tzeentch stuff in AoS and 40k down the line. I'm painting space marines and silver tower stuff mostly at the moment. But playing with my black primed seraphon right now is making me more ADD than I already am. The tzeentch army will be a lot more conversions so I want to finish up some of my dark angels and seraphon stuff first. I personally like the way they've done it. You can buy the blue or brimstones if you want but don't have to. You can have them split from pink horrors or throw them down at the start of the game depending on what you see across the table. You can keep some to split and some to deploy right away. Its just much more versatile. The reason to take pink horrors outside of splitting in my mind is basically if you are doing tzeentch alliance they are the battleline, if no tzeentch alliance, because I like the models and because I don't have clanrats yet. I also have some Sylvaneth that I bought for a rainy day cause the holiday box was too good of a deal to pass up and I love the models and I personally agree with Ritual that they are very easy to paint. Base, dry brush, shade, done. Prime with the base color and even easier. Painting a tree is also more accepting of mistakes than say power armor. That doesn't include any 40k, lord of the rings, or bushido models. Did I mention I might have ADD. I have too many models. This is the year of painting after last year was the year of building. I have like 40% of my models built and maybe 5% painted. Hoping to make a table to play at home on this spring too. I bought more models than I should have before understanding what I like, our GW store owner is a good salesman. Its hard for me to start painting, but whatever I'm painting I'm proud of when I step back. Painting dark angels right now and it can feel like a chore at times, I'm a little sick of basing caliban green at the moment, but once I finish silver and get to red it goes real fast after that. Just so satisfying seeing things come to life whatever model it is. It's definitely also nice to have some variety.
It's not more versatile, it just makes using them to their fullest twice as expensive. Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with being able to deploy blue or brimstone horrors right away, they're cheap and maybe you have 40 points left so why not throw in a unit a brimstone cannonfodder. But by doing it this way a unit of pink-horrors become expensive and mostly it's just confusing. Just include the splitting in their base-cost so everything is clear. Also the whole summoning reserve cost is an awefull mechanic anyway given that it's impossibleto generate more points. As for a reason to get them without splitting, take kairic acolytes with shields & a scroll of the dark arts and these are already cheaper and better in most aspects... and that's without their other special bolts. Unless the pink horrors being chaos daemons has some sort of advantage I'm missing I really don't see any reason to get them if you're not intending to use the split rule. As for them looking cool, fair enough
I guess I honestly haven't played with them so I can't say how well their points are balanced but I'd be disappointed if I didn't have the option to take blue or brimstone horrors separately if i wanted. They may well need a point reduction, but I don't want to see them require pink horrors to use. Being that we're on a seraphon forum, I definitely agree summoning rules point-wise has been a bit disappointing. I'd like to see something like having a separate summoning pool based on the point value of your game. Similar to how heroes and battlelines are restricted/required at different point values, I'd love to see a set summoning pool for different size games. Valid point about kairic acolytes. I just get so much glee from the philosophy exuded by pink horrors and I love the daemon fluff. But comparing the warscrolls, acolytes hit on a 5+ (4+ near a tzeentch wizard) vs a 4+ (3+ at 20 horrors) for pink horrors and 4+ for blue horrors. They have 12" range (18" with scroll which you'd usually have) vs 18" for pink and 14" for blue. Pinks are saved on a 5+ and acolytes and blue horrors on a 6+, acolytes reroll the save basically, but can block mortal wounds potentially. 140 points for 10 wounds (14 points/wound) on the acolytes. 320 points for 50 wounds (6.4 points/wound) on a group of 10 pink horrors (20 blue + 20 brimstone) and those 50 wounds cannot be removed at once from a single attack. Once you have some splitting, you can't target pink/blue/brimstone as one unit so you have to pick one to finish off at a time. They seem pretty comparable to me if I'm not missing something. Edit: Cleaner comparison Acolytes Hit: 5+ (4+ near tzeentch wizard) Range: 12" (18" with scroll) Save: 6+ (extra 6+ roll for shield including mortal wounds) Cost: 14 points/wound, 140 points for 10 Fully Splitting Pink Horrors Hit: 4+ (3+ at 20 strong, 4+ blue, 5+ brimstone) Range: 18" (14" for blue, 12" for brimstone) Save: 5+ (6+ blue, no save for brimstone) Cost: 50 wounds, 6.4 points/wound, 320 points for 10 pink/20 blue/20 brimstone Pink and Blue Horrors: Cost: 30 wounds, 8 points/wound, 240 points for 10 pink/20 blue. ----- "Pink horrors, as they are known, frolic together in cheerful, brightly coloured mobs that caper and whirl, cackling insanely at their own incomprehensible jokes as they blur and cartwheel across the battlefield. As bright bolts of raw sorcery leap from their outstretched fingers, the Pink Horrors are filled with an increased joy, emitting squeals of laughter supplemented with many 'oohs' and 'ahhs' of delight as the magical lightshow screams overhead. The only way known to end a Pink Horror's jubilant mood is to blow him apart or otherwise cut him in half. It is then that the Pink Horror undergoes a total transformation, splitting into halves that reshape themselves into smaller copies of the original... the gleeful attitude of the Pink Horrors is reversed - all Blue Horrors are morose, whining and petty, eternally squabbling about whose fault it was that they lost their pink status once again."
The option to immeadiatly field just blue or just brimstone horrors is good, it's just the steep cost of paying for the full use of a unit of pink horrors. For blue horrors atleast they did it right. Using the split rule on blue horrors makes a unit of blue horrors 90 points. That's 90 points for a good cannonfodder tarpit. That's perfectly fine. The problem probably lies in the fact that pink horrors have far more bonusses than the other two. Blue horrors are just a bigger and badder version of brimstone horrors. Pink horrors aren't just a bigger and badder version of blue horrors, they also suddenly have an icon bearer, a hornblower, a horde ability, a bonus from being near a hero, and they can cast a spell. Which makes their basecost far too steep to actually sustain the splitting rule. Also, not explicitly mentioning that you need to pay extra for the split rule is kind of lame... On that note, do you need to pay for the icon bearer rule a pink horror has? Do those reinforcements come out of your summoning pool too? What about the multidinous host? That one constantly spawns new horrors, is that battelion just impossible to actually use because you run out of points immeadiatly? As for summoning, try my summoning rules, maybe that helps you.
Definitely agree these rules are kind of all over the place for matched play. In general I would assume you need to take the summoning points for whatever you expect to be able to add. I agree this sucks and needs to be addressed. Looks like you've done a lot of work on that thread. Will have to dig into it more when I have more time.
I'm going to add a rule for mechanics like that in my list... just realizedthose aren't truly covered yet, gimme 5 minutes But yea, the limitations on summoning have not been thought through well... or well any of the matched play really..
The summoning restrictions were a quick and dirty bandage on an open wound, they needed to stop the bleeding asap. With time and development will come refinement and granularity, I'm sure of it. As to the quality of pink horrors, they are provably the only battleline unit in the game that can cast spells. And to answer the main question of the thread, my secondary army would probably be Death...if GW actually gives it some love soon. Them dropping the Tomb Kings line before I could start them is actually the reason I started Seraphon, so I owe Death a lot
Quick and dirty bandages are rarely good, would've prefered to see something more clever. Hell just saying you can only summon x% of your game's worth in reinforcements would've been better.... And yea, hopefully the official rules improve over time. As for pink horrors, they're by no means bad, but their main appeal seems to be the splitting rule, which is terribly expensive this way. I would gladly trade that spellcast if it meant the splitting rule wouldn't cost me an arm and a leg. Or trade the horde rule they have. Or trade the hornblower rule. Or trade the buff they get from being near a friendly daemon wizard. Frankly the only thing in them I'd really care about is that they have a better statline than blue horrors, their icon being able to reinforce them and them splitting into blue horrors on death, the rest is considerably less important.
I've been looking at the skaven lately as I've been painting the ones from the silver spire box and especially the skryre ones are quite fun to paint. Does anyone know what exactly is in the pestilence battletome? It's the only skaven battletome that exists, but pestilence only has 8 or so units, which seems little for a battletome. Does it include more than jsut pestilence?
meh.. that's no fun. And we're already missing so many factions.. why did they bring out those new dwarves first