7th Ed. Shield of the Magic Pool vs those bloddy Jezzail Guns

[Boomer]

Ok...an Old Blood grabs the Shield of the Magic Pool to fight the Skaven... basically the shield deflects magic missles on a 2+ against a CASTER or the unit the Caster or character is with (implying this involves anything which casts a magic missile SPELL....)

...however, some dreaded Warplock Jezzails take aim at the Oldblood (they shoot in the Shooting Phase of course).....per the Skaven Codex it states a Jezzail gun is a Warpstone Weapon making these attacks "magical" (defined on pg 33).

The question is, are the Jezzail attacks a magic missile which will be deflected by the Shield of the Mirrored Pool on a 2+?

Now keep in mind the February 2008 FAQ states:

Q. "Many army books have magic items that provide protection against ‘Missiles’. However the
Main Rulebook does not provide a comprehensive definition of what ‘Missiles’ are. Can you please
provide us with guidance on what ‘Missiles’ are in regards to Magic Items? "

A. "We assume that the word ‘missiles’ includes all attacks executed in the Shooting Phase as well as
spells that are labelled as ‘magic missiles’."


The answer seems to be that basically the Jezzails would not likely do much to the Old Blood unless he rolled a lot of 1's...in other words they are a magic missile beacuse they are defined as a magic attack and are used in the Shooting Phase per the FAQ ...right?

My Skaven friend insists the answer is no..because he feels all true magical attacks hit automatically as in a spell and that its not a magic missile because the Jezzails have a listed Ballistic Skill. I think thats a bit daft and flys completely in the face of the FAQ.

I think the FAQ makes it pretty clear...what does everyone think?

Booms

 

[Dumbledore]

You are arguing that a missile which is magical is a magic missile. It is not. A magic missile is something with the rule "magic missile" in it.

Also your logic is flawed re the FAQ:

The FAQ show that magic missiles count as missiles. There is no mention that ranged attacks that happen to be magical fall under "magic missile". By that argument daemon flamer attacks are magic missiles too I think (unless there's some jezzail rule I'm missing).

Another way of looking at it is that the FAQ says that magic missiles count as magical ranged attacks. It DOES NOT say that magical ranged attacks count as magic missiles.

(Good example of a common logical fallacy - there's a latin name for it which I can't remember)

Remember - "magic missile" is the name of the rule, NOT a description.

 

[strewart]

Yeah I have to agree with Dumbledore.. The description seems to strongly indicate that it is just the spells that are classed as magic missiles. Missiles (shooting) that are magical aren't 'magic missiles' by the rules, just the definition.

 

[JohnnyH5]

I second Dumbledore, although I sometimes wish that was the case and then I would march my EOTG in a squad of Saurus with a Scar Vet with Shield of Mirrored Pool right up into the the faces of those damned Jezzails.

 

[Boomer]

Rats...no pun intended...and no disrespect but I'm still having a hard time getting around the phrase..."We assume that the word ‘missiles’ includes all attacks executed in the Shooting Phase ...in the context of the previous phrase "Can you please provide us with guidance on what ‘Missiles’ are in regards to Magic Items? "[/i]

Meaning to me that if something is "magical" and its utilized in the Shooting Phase (its lobbing, shooting, throwing, or some other method of flight) - its a magic missile even if it doesnt necessarily say so...yes its pretty clear what a "Magic Missile" is by way of the rule itself, by the clear definitions in the 8 Lores, or perhaps in the army books - but all of it has to do with it being in the Magic Phase...the FAQ seems to be broadening it into the Shooting Phase but without necessarily calling it a "magic missile"..

...it seems weird to me the Skaven book defines Jezzails as having its "attacks are magical", its used in the Shooting Phase, but its not a magic missile? Whats the point of even mentioning it as magical at all then in the definition (not the fluff)?


Perhaps I'm looking at this from the completely wrong starting point and it's going in the tank from there...
...don't get me wrong, I'll defer to what you guys are saying but it seems the FAQ still didnt really clearly qualify or answer the initial question - plus I'm probably just being thick..

thanks for da patience
Booms

 

[Bibamus]

you do know that it doesn't really matter what magic missiles are in this context. jezzails have missile weapons indeed, but they are not magical, nor is any other weapon in the skaven arsenal magical except those taken from the "magic items" section.
warstone weapon only means it counts as magical, wich does not make it magical.

 

[Eternity_Warden]

Whats the point of even mentioning it as magical at all then in the definition (not the fluff)?

It is so you know that units who are only damaged by magical attacks, like ethereal units, are indeed affected by it.

 

[Boomer]

Ok thanks gents...I guess the Old Blood will just hop on a Carny, grab the Burning Blade of Chotec (to kill those nasty Skaven Abominations - yikes!), the Mirrored Shield to ward off a few nasty spells, hook up with some Cold Ones with Sun Standard of Chotec and have some rat stew...thanks all

Booms

 

[Bibamus]

1 more thing, the only magic missile in the skaven aresenal is warp lightning... it might not be worth 30 points to fend off the ocoasional S5 hits

 

[msinosic]

If I went down to my local Lustrian magical shield dealer and said I want a shield of the magic pool to ward off those magic missiles then went out the next day and got shot by a missile that was magical and not a magic missile I would damn well take it back and ask for my money back!

Of course the shop owner would say to me, it says right here after the made in Nippon text, "Magic Missles" not "Missiles that are Magic". I would curse and grumble and know that I would lose in court.

Point being, How it should work (yes, deflecting those Magic missiles and missiles that are magic) is not how it does work if you strictly follow the rules to the letter. Which I think is wrong but they are the rules and I would try to push my friends into a house rule that states otherwise.

 

[msinosic]

I just read the description:

Shield. Any magic missile that strikes the bearer or any unit he is with is reflected on the roll of 2+ on a D6. If the spell is reflected, the results of the magic missile are resolved against the caster of the spell or the unit the character is with (following the normal targeting rules). This in turn cannot be dispelled.

Key words being: “If the spell is reflected” and “resolved against the caster of the spell”