7th Ed. shooting slann

[lupercal]

i was just thinking when reading the slann rules if he is in a unit of temple guard he is treated as a large target for purposes of using magic items casting etc. so with that in mind can he use the staff of the lost sun to shoot at units not in combat even if his unit is since he is technically not in combat i can't think of a reason why going by the wording but i was kinda thinking of putting it on him so he could do something other than cast spells even though his bs is kinda lame

 

[strewart]

Yep, he may still act normally and after the examples given it has an etc. so there is no reason he shouldn't shoot. The LoS thing does say he can raise up to cast spells, but it never says it only works in the magic phase. I see no reason why not.

 

[SlannOfItza]

The wording makes it really seem to be only for casting spells, though I guess it doesn't say specifically. I'd definately only play it as for spells he has large target line of sight.

"The Slann Magwe-Priest's palanquin allows it to float up to cast its powerful magic before dropping back within the protection of its unit."

 

[Barotok]

Both Slann and Stewart are correct. I won't quote the rule directly because I don't have my rulebook in front of me, but I do remember participating in a discussion about this rule a while back. If my memory serves me correctly, the book says that because of the palanquin that the Slann may have LOS as if he were a large target. I don't remember any turn phases being listed, where this doesn't apply and it would seem that the benefit would be indefinite (or as long as the Slann was on his palanquin) as it is a result of him riding on his palanquin.

The interesting question here is that if the Slann is in combat can he still use the staff during the shooting phase? I will take a look at my books after work if I have time and see if there is anything mentioned in the rules that helps clear this up. Something that would definitely sway the answer either way is if there is any rules defining wether characters in a unit that is in combat (but not in the front rank) are able to use items or fight at all. It seems that characters not in the front rank, can not fight or perform actions. The Slann is given express permission in the Army Book to cast magic while in the 2nd rank of a TG unit, but it says nothing about shooting.

If someone has access to their books and wants to shed a little light on the discussion instead of speculating like me, I'd be interested in getting a opinion directly from the book.

 

[SlannOfItza]

I just briefly looked in the rulebook, and it says as long as no enemy models are in base to base contact with the slann he may cast magic missles even if his unit is in combat.

Surprising the exact wording says magic missles as to say he can't cast normal spells if his TG are in combat, only magic missles...Hmm...

Regardless, I do not think he can shoot with large-target line of sight, or shoot if the TG are in combat, but that's just IMO, not by any rules or anything...

 

[lupercal]

the reason it says magic missles is because in the rule book it states that you can cast all other spells in close combat with the restrictions that are normally applied to them so if they require los then you can only target the unit your fighting but none the less irrelvant to the slann in TG but to clarify my own question i just looked at it again and it answered my own question as it says that he can use magic items normally which in this case the staff is a magic item so my answer is yes sorry for wasting your guys time

 

[Barotok]

I can't believe that I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out. I guess if you have the points, giving a slann the staff is a decent idea, provided you don't have something better to spend the points on.

 

[strewart]

Surprising the exact wording says magic missles as to say he can't cast normal spells if his TG are in combat, only magic missles...Hmm...

Other spells can be cast from combat anyway...

I don't remember any turn phases being listed, where this doesn't apply and it would seem that the benefit would be indefinite (or as long as the Slann was on his palanquin) as it is a result of him riding on his palanquin.

I don't want to seem picky and pedantic, but remember (also confirmed in the FAQ) this rule is actually for when the Slann is with a unit of Temple Guard. If he is on his own or in another unit, he does not have large target LoS. I remember some quite amusing discussions about the apparently logic behind this decision since the TG don't hold him up at all. So just remember, if he isn't with TG he can't float up for any reason.

 

[Todes]

i think he can only float to cast magic missiles, not in the shooting phase.
the rule of the large target line of sight only works when he cast those spells.

 

[strewart]

This thread needs a couple of quotes...

A slann placed in the second rank may still act as normal (cast spells, use magic items, act as general etc.)

So that tells us he can use magic items from the second rank, not whether they have LoS though.

The slann magwe-priest's palanquin allows it to float up to cast its powerful magic before dropping back within the protection of its unit. Because of this, the his line of sight is worked out if he was a large target.

Now in the first sentence, it mentions to cast his powerful magic. I think this is because GW did not consider him having a shooting weapon and such. In the second sentence, all it says is that his LoS is worked out like a large target. No phase restriction. I think if it were intended otherwise, it would have said 'in the magic phase, his LoS is worked out....' So it is a tiny bit grey, but looks to me like it should be fine.

Now as to shooting while in combat...

as long as the slann has no enemy models in base-to-base contact it may still cast magic missiles while engagaed in close combat

Now it is a tiny bit more explicit. He can cast magic missiles while in combat, thats it. Other spells can generally be cast from combat anyway, there are very few examples that specifically say they cannot.

So I think he can use the item, but not from combat.

 

[Eternity_Warden]

Very good analysis Strewart, that makes sense to me.