7th Ed. Skavenpelt banner

I'm not sure why people are still discussing a flying skink chief with the skavenpelt banner... It was mentioned earlier that you cannot have both magic items/weapons and a magic banner on the same model. The only exception to this I believe in the whole game is the Slann. If you take a magic banner, that is the only magical equipment you can have. If you take magical weapons, armour, items then you cannot have a magic banner.

I'll have to have a look at the book when I get home as well, but I am inclined to agree with Baratok that it is stretching the rules a bit. Generally if the ability is provided by an item and the guy holding the item is killed, the ability is lost. This makes sense. And it definitely seems to be stretching it to jump from one unit to the next.

Having said that though, if a bunch of guys on a battlefield have been worked up into a crazy blood frenzy, they aren't going to immediately go back to being passive when one guy walks away. I'll have to read the exact description. If there is something like 'the skink and the unit he is with....' then it won't help the case because it is implying that it is in fact the presence of the BSB that is giving the ability.

 

sorry strewart i conceeded the flying point without saying so i was simply thinking about the skinks M of 6 vs. the saurus M of 4 for moving from unit to unit

 

lol just had a vision of a skink running from unit to unit yelling "hey Saurus, that chaos guy said he pee'd in your spawning pool!

 

ha ha ha nice Deadgrass

Anyways I don't think it'd work even if you could take a magic item and a magic banner as the skink chief BSB himself would be frenzied and would have to charge most times instead of choosing to join another unit. Nice idea though...

 

So yeah.. Now that I have looked in the book, I can certainly see the possibility. 'The unit gets frenzy until they lose combat' I guess (and really, who knows) GW are assuming when you stick the character in a unit, he will stay there and not jump between units. There is nothing to say he needs to stay though, but it also easy to interpret:

'Skaven pelt banner: the unit gets frenzy....'

To mean that the unit with the skavenpelt banner, so if it isn't there... They unit doesn't get frenzy. This is more how I think it is meant to be interpreted, it would be kinda hard to keep track of who does and who doesn't have frenzy if you are going from unit to unit and skinks are charging in and losing combats left right and centre. Wait.... Not centre, skinks probably won't be in the centre. It looks to me like one of those things that opponents will just flatly say no to, there may not be a clear answer in the rules but there will be a strong consensus that it is intended the banner must still be there for frenzy to take effect.

Thats my 2 cents. Keep the change.

 

okay, another potential use for Skavenpelt Banner, stick the skink on a steg and put him with a saurus unit.

Without the banner and in a 6 wide frontage the unit (with spears obviously) does 24 attacks (12 on the charge) with the steg (so only 4 of the frontage is Saurus) it does... 24 attacks! (12 on the charge!) plus you can factor in the stegs attacks/ impact and the skink crew (with +1 each) and the chief... so it gives the saurus more punch and makes the steg more able to take a charge...

 

Except the steg can be easily baited out of the unit. Much better is a unit of cold one cav, they get just as many bonus attacks per width as spear saurus, ending up at 5 per model (3 saurus 2 CO). Though you suffer from stupidity you cant be steg baited.

 

Steg baiting? You mean due to frenzy, it has to charge out of the unit? Remember the whole unit will have frenzy too. What happens if there are things with multiple movement values in the one unit? I always thought that you had to move at the ppace of the slowest model so the steg wouldn't charge if the saurus were out of range. Then if both are in range, the whole unit will charge.

 

Nope, 99% sure that if he's frenzied he has to charge out. Not got the BRB on me so I can't check it, but I've heard many many people discussing it before without even doubting it.

 

Unfortunately yes, if he falls into the 4" gap where the saurus can't charge an he can then he will, so it would again come down to channeling your units where you want them and either trying to make the enemy overrun into you/ your charge arc or otherwise screening them from bait units.

 

Yeah I know that happens if the character is frenzied and the unit isn't... But in this case, both are but have different movement. I'd be more likely to rule that the entire unit (all being frenzied) needs to be in range if it happened in a game, but thats just my opinion.

If you go with your rules, what happens if:

-You declare a charge with the rest of the unit anyway, and when measured the character is in range but the unit is not? Does it count as a failed charge or 'partially' failed charge in that the character in the unit charges but the others don't? Would be strange..

-What if the tables are turned, and the unit is faster than the character? Do they charge through him and leave him behind?

-You win combat and pursue? Ok the steg has 2d6, but what if the character has 3d6from a faster mount? Does he chase 3d6 while the others chase 2d6 even though they are in the same unit?


This is why I think it is easier that if both character and unit are frienzied in the same unit, they must both be in range..

 

Its definately one for an FAQ however, my thoughts on your scenarios would be:

a) theres nothing stopping you failing a charge with Franzy, you can still declare and fail as normal as far as I am aware, however frenzy (and this can sometimes be the best part of frenzy) activates AFTER your charges are declared, you then measure your range and, if possible, must charge. So, in this case your unit would fail its charge and fumble forward 4" (as the WHOLE unit declared a charge, they all suffer together)

b) Units can't leave the character, so it would be forced to operate on the characters speed, characters, however MAY choose to leave a unit, thus the steg in this case charges out.

c) this one Im a little hazy on but Id presume the character would remain in the unit, the same as a frenzied character in a non-frenzied unit (if it enters combat together it stays together essentially...)

Im no rules expert, my mates and I play by the R.A.I.D.E.N rule (Rules As Intended Dont Effin Nitpick) rather than R.A.W (Rules As Written) this is just the conclusions I reached by comparing the BRB Frenzy and character Frenzy rules.

Another thing to consider though, even if the Steg does charge on its own, the banner still gives an extra +1 Steg attack, +1 Chief attack, and +4 skink crew attacks as well as a +1 CR for BSB for 50 points... and to get the BSB bonus VP they'd have to take out the Steg too...

and if the enemy then flank charges the Steg, well, that sets up the Saurus unit that just got left behind for a nice little flank charge of your own...

 

you can screen a large target? you must tell me how .

 

I may need to clarify, I meant screen my steg from charging the wrong target, not from shooting. You can't charge through your own units, regardless of how big you are, and you have to be able to legally charge your target to be led away by frenzy. Hence you can "screen" your unit from the effects of frenzy

Sorry if there was confusion.

 

Ah, i see. good man.

 

I go by the same principle, just didn't have a name for it before!