7th Ed. SKINK COHORTS

Hah, I could go on about these guys, and already have several times. One thing that's forgotten is that unless you buy the javelin upgrade for skirmishers, these guys will have a 6+ save against quite a bit of crappy shooting that the skirmishers won't, which helps.

Personally, I think Bibamus is completely wrong on just about everything he has had to say here, and this is mostly due to extreme pessimism. If you always think, "a smart opponent" would do this, in theory you can never win! In truth, it really does only take 2 units in a sort of mitten shape to hold something off, and either option give you a flank.

The other thing is, I see people running 5X3 chaos warriors or 5X2 chosen all the time. Those suckers are expensive, getting 25 of them is kinda silly.

I personally think the krox plus 11-13 skinks is one of the most efficient units in the game, and anybody who's faced one of them has always agreed with me. If you have a unit of 15 saurus and a krox unit, don't be afraid to flee with the saurus and charge the exposed flank with the Skrox, a kroxigor on average kills one chaos warrior with a shield in the flank, and the skinks kill almost 1/5 of a guy, the warriors swing back and kill 2.777 skinks. You have 2 ranks, banner, flank, a kill, and outnumber (if you got 13 of them to begin with) They've got 2.77 kills and a banner. They lose by nearly 2. That also was assuming they had 16 guys, with a caboose swinging also, if they demonstrate true hubris and take only 15, they'll likely only swing with 2 guys, which don't even kill 2 skinks on average and makes this into a savage and terrible defeat for the WOC. High Elf swordmasters do slightly better but are very vulnerable to javelins and rank breaking.

Long story short, skrox units are handily able to defeat and break WOC, so please, please, don't anybody ever, ever tell anyone any kind of dumb theories about how "the skinks just give away combat rez and can't beat anything", because if you do, you are just proving your own wild and horrendous ignorance. Skinks are trash. Skinks are BAD trash. Trash wins games. BAD trash is actually better then LUXURY trash.

 

lolwut?

of course they are effective if the enemy are stupid enough to fall into a flee-trap and get flanked by an enormous unmanouverable skrox unit!

and again, ofc they are going to do well against stupid WoC players. they'll do well against stupid anything players



if skrox were that good they'd see major use in tournaments. if they're that good, where are they? or maybe if they're really that good you should get out there and show it!



(also since when was beating people in CC by 2 considered awesome....?)

 

i don't think that what you see in tournaments should be a criteria to rank units by.
the problem with the flee-flank tactic is that the oponenet has the choice not to charge and keep both units to his front. unless he has hatred or is frenzied he doesn't even have to pursue out of position if he is charged by something that will surely flee. if you don't want to charge him with saurus + skrox it is probable hat he will know that and will just bring another unit to that area so things even out. a cavlary unit could jsut aswell charge any of the units and probably break them (saurus might not break so the skrox is the probable target) and then overrun, if you flee he will liekly catch you if he is so close that he can't just manouvre around those formations.
i've had my experience with trash units having played skaven for a long time where even slaves were able to break things in CC, but then again, they aren't T2.
i'd rather not buy cohorts if i can buy more saurus, the way i see it they are ust better all arround. also skirmishers can mostly do teh same the cohort can except the rank bonus, but if the oponent doesn't charge there will be 20 poison darts flying his way instead of 5-6 poison javelins.
i will never use Skrox units as they just aren't worth their points. it is true that i never tryed them and that gives me little right to dismiss them but i used kroxigor units and they hardly did anything even from the flank. granted the static is nice, but the cost is higher aswell
and given your WoC example, i'd rather just kill them with magic [be it urnaons thunderbolt, lore of metal or the burning aligment] and then shoot him with skinks that charge him in the flank, its just easyer that way. also, skinks hit on 5's and wound on 5's, i don't like to push my luck. he also has 2 attacks/model that hit on 3's and wound on 2's

 

I'm afraid Donkey wasn't talking about enormous ones, so your argument is moot. Thirteen skinks with Kroxigor isn't going to be a very large unit. They are MV6 fast, have a relatively small frontage for infantry. How can they be unmanouverable? If you compare them to a different unit type (IE Cav) there are definitely things that are more manouverable.

As far as tournaments are concerned, people who play tournaments are generally using T1 and T2 armies that are able to win. This means that people who are not using one of the most powerful armies must tailor thier lists to maximize effectiveness against it's most powerfull foes. I am not saying that is the reason you don't see skrox units in toruneys. What I am saying is that just because a unit is not used in tournament lists does not mean it is useless.

 

he probably ment the inability of a Skrox unit to perform a turn manouvre wich means you can run circles around them instead of charging them with the right angle

 

okay... so i guess i tried the whole skrox unit thing and i think they did great!! i used 2 units of 11/1 skrox and they did great against dwarfs and their T4 amazingly. the guy dropped his oath stone and still that skrox unit did about 3/4 wounds per turn and that was a mind blowing experience. if you think about it, i took 11 skinks and 1 krox with no command = 110 pts. it isn't that bad. most people spend 100 pts on magic items that they never even use so why not try it out. i do think that moving up to 2 krox and 16 skinks is now using up a lot of pts but have these 2 units is actually pretty nice. players usually don't see them as much as a threat compared to the saurii blocks so that also helps in not having them shot to death trying to move up. i did find these guys to be great warmachine killers as well. they march 12 and if you keep them on the ends of the board they move pretty quick to take out dwarf warmachines. just thought you guys might like to know if you didn't already think about that.

 

Actually, there was a battle report just posted about how a group of 24 skinks and 3 kroxigors won the game for a guy. They killed a hellcannon, took a charge from chaos knights and chased them into the flank of a group of warriors which they broke and chased down.

http://www.lustria-online.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3470

I like 11 and 1 skrox a lot, with a standard and musician. 16 and 2 skrox could be interesting but 24 and 3 might just be too many points on one unit for me. If I follow that report right, that guy lost a kroxigor and that was about it. People don't target these units and they give you a lot of options.

124 pt skrox unit
90 pt terradon unit
90 pt terradon unit
70 pt skink unit
70 pt skink unit

Lots of options there for 444 points.

Engine of the Gods and a unit of 10 skink cohorts cost that much... for maybe D6 str 4/5 hits no armor save against some things for a turn before it's charged and killed and a little redirector thingy.

 

Add a Salamander (or 2) to that. Add a unit of skink cohort. And, if you're in the mood, you could add aunit of chameleons (or swap it for any of the above). Then you have all the support you'll ever need. Feel free to add the rest of your army, as your list is always supported.
Slann list? Oldblood? no problem, the skinks will take care of it!

Skroxx 11/1 are the only thing that I see viable. They're ok, nothing spectacular. But they are very fun to use. Flank charges, secondary war machine hunters, support unit on the whole; and a pretty fun one too. Hell, why not, eh?

The Hunted

 

I swear by my gigantic skink/krox mob (the aforementioned 24&3 unit that slew the Hellcannon). As long as they get the charge, and I pick my targets well enough, I can almost always count on them to steamroller a couple of pricey units and put the hurt on another. It runs out of steam eventually of course, but as long as the krox can cause some wounds to the rank they hit, there aren't usually nearly enough attacks coming back at them to lose too much combat res in the first couple encounters. The players at my store are starting to catch on to my tactic of using them to large target javelin hunt, but that at least gives me some control in possibly herding the shaggoth/ treeman etc. onto the other side of the board. Big template attacks are a problem; the EotG ward bubble and celestial shield spell are this unit's friend.
The downside of these guys has been well documented, but I'd urge anyone with a mind to try something different to give them a chance.

 

actually, we've olny been talking about how sucky those guys are on the charge. can they survive the charge of a unit?

 

Well, the game I played tonight for example: minor loss against my WoC pal (stupid mistake, general slain by invincible serial rapist hero, banner captured). My 24 skink /3 Krox cohort:
1)Survived an almost dead on Hellcannon shot, losing 11 skinks+ 1 wounded krox. (Didn't panic)
2) Took a charge of 4 knights + general riding huge metal monster thing. The brave absorbed all the hero+creature attacks in the challenge (+5 with overkill), the wounded Krox was killed and the next suffered 2 wounds. (another 4 wounds). Krox killed 2 knights in return. With 3 ranks at the start, still outnumbering, and my standard, I lost combat by only 2, and managed to hold (my general was nearby). My turn I flank charged with saurus, broke the unit and the skrox ran it down, having lost more skinks in the combat.
3) Charged another unit of 5 Nurgle knights + hero and still managed to kill one knight before aforementioned invincible hero destroyed them.

The battle before this they took a charge from 4 frenzy knights, broke them, and went on to great acts of heroism.

I've never run cohorts in a smaller denomination, but I don't imagine it'd be nearly as durable. As is I can lose half the skinks and still have a +3 rank bonus and usually outnumber. Most players so far have tried to target the kroxigors straightaway, recognizing them as the bigger threat, which saves on skink casualties as well.

 

kroxigor = damage to own unitt skinks = free combat res. most people don't realise this but its not really an argument pro-Skrox.
you got lucky for having a barave in the unit (or it could have been an anti WoC-tactic) but if he wouldn't have been there that unit would have lost combat by more than 2. killing 1 nurgle knight is quite impressive since your kroxigors hit them on 5's and wound on 3's and even then he gets a 4+ save

 

I find running small units of Skink Cohorts the best. They are cheaper than Skirmishers and can redirect just as well, if not better. I have tried Skrox units to mixed success, but would be willing to put them in my list, though I would just prefer a unit of Kroxigor.

 

Having a unit champion is pretty much mandatory with a unit this big in my book. WoC heroes must challenge you, but other races' heros/ champions have to accept the skink brave's challenge or be forced into hiding. Max overkill bonus is often less than the wounds a hero character can deal out, so it makes a great initial buffer unless they have a champion and character both, and most where I play don't use champions.

 

Funny how this topic keeps coming up about once a month...