8th Ed. Skink confusion

I use javelins on my skirmishers so they can doubble as cohort skinks should the need arise, and javs are easier to paint

 

Pardon my ignorance, but what are skink cohorts?

 

Skinks that go in ranked units. In the core section you can choose either skink cohorts (ranked) or skink skirmishers, which are in skirmish formation. The cohorts may have kroxigor in them, making skrox units.

 

It's the regiment of Skinks and Kroxigors!

 

Nope. Cohorts is just rank and file skinks. Units of skinks and kroxigors are normaly referd to as Skrox units.

 

ohhhhh! Sorry about the confusion!

 

Quite!

 

You don't get a parry save actually. You only get to parry if you use a "normal" handweapon. The BRB states that a model will always use its "special weapon" if such a weapon is equipped. So even though Skinks, according to the codex, also come with handweapons, they never actually use them because they have javelins which are not considerd "normal" handweapons.

So, Skinks never have a parry save.

 

yes, skinks use the hand weapons. you dont expect dark elf repeater crossbow guys to start whacking about them with the crossbows do you? no they use their hand weapon and shield (if you give them that) in close combat.

 

I know it doesn't seem logical like in this example with the crossbows.

But the Big Red Book is VERY clear about using special weapons over normal hand weapons on pp 88-89.

If you read through that part it says that a model which caries a special hand weapon always uses such in close combat. GW is presenting this by saying that warriors with specialized weapons will always prefer the use of such a weapon because it is their favourite weapon to use, as opposed to a weapon that they don't use often.

This includes ranged weapons, which are also considerd special weapons as is clearly stated in the opening paragraph of Special Weapons, p. 88.

Now, if you had another special weapon equipped you could chose to use the other but a simple hand weapon does not fall under the categorie of special hand weapons.

Ergo, skinks do use their Javelins in cc and as such are not entitled to a parry save.

PS. Don't ask me why they still have a normal hand weapon listed as equipment - maybe for certain spells or instances that destroy equipped weapons and then the normal handwepoan acts as a backup?

 

But if you look under the Javelins entry you will see that they only work for ranged attacks.

 

the word 'only' is not in my describtion; are you looking at p. 90?

I would like to add that I only have a German Rule Book in front of me so perhaps it is lost in translation.

So far the best clue I have found that I may be wrong about Javelins is in the description of the Javelin saying that " ...they are not solid enough to be used man vs man...". That's as far as I will go for now.

I am still not convinced yet that a (special) ranged weapon would be replaced with a normal hand weapon in cc. This is just how I interpret the rules on pp. 88-89.

Show me where it says in the Book that as soon as models with ranged weapons will use normal handweapons when they hit cc? I would be seriously happy to start using parry saves for my skinks.

 

Don't have the BRB on me at the moment, but perhaps this will surfice for now.

(Think thrown weapon was replaced with quick to fire in the latest book)

http://warhammerfantasybattle.wikia.com/wiki/Equipment

The BRB should have a similar entry in the weapons section.
aso check the section on ranged weapons.

 

On Page 39 of the BRB, it states that: "Models are not permitted to shoot at enemies that are engaged in close combat, for the simple reason there is too much danger of hitting a friend. Remember that while a fight may look like two different blocks of troops fighting head-to-head, it's actually a swirling melee where no one stays still long enough to offer a safe shot."

Also, on page 38 of the BRB, under the "Who can Shoot?" header, it states that one of the most common reasons a model may not shoot is "They're fighting in close combat".

Alternatively and in regards to Javelins: On page 89 of the BRB, under the heading "Range" it states: "...If a weapons range is "combat" then it can only be used in close combat. If the range is a number of some kind, it is a missle weapon and the number is it's maximum range".

The entry for Javelins on page 90 of the BRB is listed as "Ranged 12" and is thus a ranged missle weapon which must follow the rules for missle weapons as explained in the beginning of my post.

Hope this helps clear things up.

- Lord Cedric

 

thank you C. now i do not have to flip through the BRB and get all the silly references

EDIT: if you actually DO believe that ranged weapons are used for CC fighting, do you grant for example dwarf handgunners S4 and armour piercing to their CC attacks?

 

I thought Blowpipes and Javelins both have a twelve inch range? as far as I know the only advantage to Blowpipes is that you have multiple shots.

 

Yes. Both Blowpipes and Javelins are 12" range. However the Blowpipes are strength 3 with 2x multi-shot. The Javelins are quick to fire and strength as user. Granted the Skinks are normally strength 3 anyways, but the chiefs are a 4. Also spells or items which can confer a strength bonus can add to the Javelins I believe.

- Lord Cedric