8th Ed. Some questions about Slann...

[Euclid]

Hi,

I have recently returned to the game, after an absence of about 10 years. I have some questions about Slann, that maybe you guys could help with:


1. The army list descibes the Slann as having no weapon. Would I be right in thinking that if the Slann were to fight a round of CC then he simply doesn't fight back? In such a circumstance, how do you guys deal with challenges made against the TG unit the Slann is in?

2. If the Slann has a bound magic missile spell, can he cast it through a Skink Priest as per normal magic missiles?

3. I don't understand the Loremaster special rule: does it mean he has access to all 7 spells in a Lore for the entire battle, or does it mean he only has 4 spells, but I pick which ones I want at the start of the battle?

4. There are a couple of spells that are treated like bouncing cannonballs (e.g. Penumbral Pendulum). If the Slann is in a TG unit, I presume the poor model directly in front of him has to take a hit too?

 

[Questioner]

1. I think he does fight. And challenges, well, that is what the Champion is there for. Or another character.


2. Not sure on this one.


3. Access to all 7 spells.


4. Yes.

 

[Stonecutter]

Hi,

I have recently returned to the game, after an absence of about 10 years. I have some questions about Slann, that maybe you guys could help with:


1. The army list descibes the Slann as having no weapon. Would I be right in thinking that if the Slann were to fight a round of CC then he simply doesn't fight back? In such a circumstance, how do you guys deal with challenges made against the TG unit the Slann is in?

All models always have at least a handweapon (pg. 88 CRB) and the slaan's profile gives him a big single attack that he lends as a supporting attack. Challenges can be accepted or refused as per normal - usually refused or accepted by a champ since the last thing you want is the slaan in combat!

2. If the Slann has a bound magic missile spell, can he cast it through a Skink Priest as per normal magic missiles?

Yes, the FAQ now refers to this as "vassal" but the rules are as per the army book so any MM is fine to cast

3. I don't understand the Loremaster special rule: does it mean he has access to all 7 spells in a Lore for the entire battle, or does it mean he only has 4 spells, but I pick which ones I want at the start of the battle?

See page 72 of the CRB, the slaan knows all the spells from the selected lore

4. There are a couple of spells that are treated like bouncing cannonballs (e.g. Penumbral Pendulum). If the Slann is in a TG unit, I presume the poor model directly in front of him has to take a hit too?

Everything under the template (and a bouncing cannonball is a template) must take a test or is subject to a to-wound roll. Keep in mind the slaan, unit champ and any other character all get a look-out, sir roll if the unit has 5+ rank and file models.

 

[n810]

#1. actually it's the small Skink attendant with the dagger that makes the single attack.

 

[strewart]

Yeah Slann don't fight, they let the skink fight for them! Just a fluff thing though, effectively the overall Slann model is attacking.

On challenges, rules as intended the Slann should not be able to issue or accept challenges. The TG are there to keep him safe, and from the second rank he never could be challenged in 7th ed. Since 8th ed GW said models don't have to be in the fighting rank to be challenged, he is technically exposed to that possibility. I am disappointed GW has not FAQed that, it makes no sense for the Slann to step up out of the second rank to fight in a challenge when nowhere else in the game he can choose to leave the TG. Talk to your opponents about it, my gaming group immediately said they would never challenge the Slann in TG for fluff reasons before I even mentioned it.

 

[Euclid]

Cheers for the replies guys. Much appreciated.

#1. actually it's the small Skink attendant with the dagger that makes the single attack.

I still use the older Slann model with the 4 TG carriers, so I guess it's them making the attack

 

[MI_Tiger]

4. There are a couple of spells that are treated like bouncing cannonballs (e.g. Penumbral Pendulum). If the Slann is in a TG unit, I presume the poor model directly in front of him has to take a hit too?

Everything under the template (and a bouncing cannonball is a template) must take a test or is subject to a to-wound roll. Keep in mind the slaan, unit champ and any other character all get a look-out, sir roll if the unit has 5+ rank and file models.

Don't the rules say that you can't intentionally target your own unit with a damaging template spell? I always interpreted this to mean that a Slann in Temple Guard could not cast "The Burning Head" for example, since it would always hit the TG. Is this incorrect?

 

[Euclid]

Don't the rules say that you can't intentionally target your own unit with a damaging template spell? I always interpreted this to mean that a Slann in Temple Guard could not cast "The Burning Head" for example, since it would always hit the TG. Is this incorrect?

This may be nit-picking, but the FAQ has a correction for The Penumbral Pendulum which states that it has no spell-type; it is Direct Damage spells that cannot deliberately target your own guys, so this would seem there is nothing stopping us hurting our own TG. Unfortunately, there is nothing mentioned about The Burning Head.

Lets face it, a Slann once virtually wiped out the Dwarves cos he wanted to rearrange some mountains. I don't think they'd care too much about hurting one TG!

 

[Stonecutter]

Burning head would not be allowed since it is a direct damage spell that cannot intentionally hit your own unit. As Euclid has indicated, the pendulum is no longer DD and thus can be cast out of the unit, likely killing a TG. Mind you, I don't see too many shadow slaans around so it is not likely too much of a problem.

 

[ihusain]

Slann has the guardian rule, which states that he has the large target rule under certain conditions
like line of sight. The General's inpiring presence rule or Battle Standard Bearer rule applies up to
18" if the General or BSB has the large target rule.
So does 18" range apply to the Slann?

Any thoughts?

 

[strewart]

Large target special rule was removed for 8th edition, so you don't get he 18" range.

True line of sight is in now, so you can effectively see from the eyes of the model thus he can still cast past the TG.

 

[Stonecutter]

Just to add a bit to Strewart's response, the FAQ has now changed the wording for LOS as follows:

Change “Because of this, his line of sight is worked out as if
the Mage-Priest himself were a large target” to “Because of
this, assume the Mage-Priest is floating just above the heads of
the models in his unit when working out his line of sight.”

 

[Coatl]

im not so sure about that burning head interpretation. doesn't it say you can't intentionally target your own unit? i.e. try and shoot your own skinks at max range of a spell in order to get the template, bounce, etc to hopefully scatter/travel further onto an enemy unit past them. this doesn't mean a spell cant intentionaly hit your own unit, it means you cant target your own unit. so i believe you can still use the burning head so long as your not targeting your own guys, that single temple guard just takes a smack to the back of the head

another thing to consider for the slann. in our rulebook, i believe it states the slann must always be placed in the second rank of the temple guard unit. by that wording, even if you refused a challenge with him, your opponent wouldn't be allowed to move him to the rear of the unit due to our rulebook's specific rule for the tg unit overridding the general rulebook's rule for challenges.

 

[MI_Tiger]

The actual wording from page 31 (small rule book) is "Sometimes a direct damage spell will use a template to determine which models are hit. When this happens, the template cannot be placed in such a way that it touches friendly units ...". No specific restrictions for targets.

Since The Burning Head bounces like a cannonball (which is considered a template), I've always assumed that it follows this rule. However it does not explicitly say that it is a template, so I could see it being allowed.

 

[eppe]

Don't the rules say that you can't intentionally target your own unit with a damaging template spell? I always interpreted this to mean that a Slann in Temple Guard could not cast "The Burning Head" for example, since it would always hit the TG. Is this incorrect?

This may be nit-picking, but the FAQ has a correction for The Penumbral Pendulum which states that it has no spell-type; it is Direct Damage spells that cannot deliberately target your own guys, so this would seem there is nothing stopping us hurting our own TG. Unfortunately, there is nothing mentioned about The Burning Head.

Lets face it, a Slann once virtually wiped out the Dwarves cos he wanted to rearrange some mountains. I don't think they'd care too much about hurting one TG!

For the purpose of casting though the Slaan floats above the TG so wouldn't he be able to shoot over his units? Since large target rules allow for them to do it? (ie a Stegadon can shoot over a unit)

 

[strewart]

For most spells, yes. The problem is the ones that say 'draw a direct line from the caster' in which case it is assumed to touch any model under the line.

 

[eppe]

For most spells, yes. The problem is the ones that say 'draw a direct line from the caster' in which case it is assumed to touch any model under the line.

I guess you could just email GWS on this, a buddy has been emailing their rules department about some of our questions. I would honestly just start the template at the front of the first rank of TG.

 

[BEEGfrog]

If you want to be mathematically theoretical about the penumbral pendulum and burning head then you can try the argument that mathematically lines have zero width. This means that the zero width line can fit in the gap between the two TG in front of the slann without touching them.

Congratulations if you can get your opponent to agree with you about it!

 

[Euclid]

If you want to be mathematically theoretical about the penumbral pendulum and burning head then you can try the argument that mathematically lines have zero width. This means that the zero width line can fit in the gap between the two TG in front of the slann without touching them.

Congratulations if you can get your opponent to agree with you about it!

With a name like Euclid, it's worth a try!

 

[Taipan]

Needs a ruling from GW really. That and we need a ruling that Slann can't be challenged (it's dumb that they can).

I play it as hitting a single TG in the front rank. I don't cast the magic cannonball much though, usually only to snipe an enemy warmachine crew or a Stank (if its out of 'Pit' range).