8th Ed. Stegadon vs Stegadon Ancient

[archangelvk]

Which one is better to take?

For 15 more pts I get +1S +1AS and 2 blowpipes but I lose 1 attack. I understand that the Ancient will come out of my rares rather than my special but is it worth that extra 15 pts for those things? most of the WH world is T3 and S5 would be enough ?

 

[Dyvim Tvar]

Half the Warhammer world is T3 but most of the other half is T4 so the strength makes a difference. Worth 15 in my mind.

 

[Zwuppie]

It would be enough for T3, but charging hordes with strength 5 and only 4 attacks is not the best think you can do! Use it for T4 units, like trolls, D3 wounds impact hits! A real troll killer in my opinion or monster killer!

And only 15 points for 1 strength and 1AS, the attack you lose would not make the difference in a game, strength 5 and 1AS would!

 

[Pofadder]

I agree with above poster and also IMHO our special slot is more crowded in the new book, personally I would go ancient most times. multiple stegs depends on army composition, maybe 2 ancients, or 1 ancient one regadon depending on rest of your list, but I will probably take both upgrades most of the time as well.

 

[stormtruperTK41]

I think on the ancient's merits alone its work taking, however, it, in my opinion, becomes the clear choice due to the EotG. Take two, this allows for some great things. 1. You can then lower the casting value of some lore by 2! 2. double burning POWERRRR! 3. The 6+ ward save make saurus with spears the clear choice since they will have the same armor save as hws saurus, but with more attacks and a proper 6+ instead of parry save.

The next list I try out will be lead by an old blood and have double lvl skinks with lore of beasts. The double engines will then have dice to use their bound spell if it calls for it and makes the lore of beast spells much easier to cast for them.

 

[OmegaHavoc]

Unfortunately you can only lower a lore by 1 regardless of how many engines you take.

 

[Spiney Norman]

The ancient steg by a huge margin.

It benefits far more from the sharpened horns upgrade than the regular steg, most MC/MI are T4 or greater and typically have high Armour saves (or at least the cavalry do), wounding on 2+ with -3 sv is so much better than wounding on 3+ with -2 save there is just no contest. In my mind the only reason to take a regular steg is because your rare allowance is already full.

 

[olderplayer]

The steg is really designed to get off the charge. It works in synergy with small skink units that can bait and flee or act as chaff to set up a unit for a charge. For example, put a 60 point unit of twelve skink cohorts in two ranks in front of a monster or tougher unit and shoot with javelins for poison hits on 6, then stand and shoot with quick to fire against to tke the charge. You get 2 poison hits in shooting phase and another 2 in stand and shoot. If you get one or two unsaved wounds on the monster and hold on steadfast, then you hold the enemy unit up and hopefully can counter charge. More likely, if the skinks break and flee or are destroyed, then the monster or unit can only pursue or overrun or reform. If you position the steg about 11" out from the front of the skink unit, then the pursuit or overrunn will likely fall short or the steg (monsters do not have swiftstride) and the ability to countercharge the monster with the steg is huge. The same tactic works with demigryphs and heavy cav and similar units.

The key to the steg is getting off the charge and then being stubborn, having terror, taking few wounds, and holding up something until you can deal with it or flank it. The ancient steg's ability to hit hard and break the opposing unit is the key and then hold with stubborn if the impact hit roll is low and the hits are low. Remember that that unit gets five crew attacks and 3 steg attacks in CC. Also, the steg needs to be supported by a unit of skrox, TG or saurus that catch up.

Since a lot of models are T4 and some or T5 or T6, even T7, and/or have very high armour saves, the extra +1 S really makes a big difference in the damage caused by the impact hits and cc hits of the steg. One less cc attack on the ancient steg is worth +1S on that steg. Also, if the goal is to potentially hold up for a turn with stubborn until the support arrives, then the extra +1 AS is worth a lot. S3 wounds on the steg are unsaved 50% of the time on the steg and 66.7% of the time on the ancient steg. Thus, the ancient steg will survive a bit longer and hit a lot harder.

There is another aspect. I am a fan of using the steg to go after ranked infantry with S3 and S4 attacks where steg thunderstomps do a lot of damage. In that environment, I'd take the two giant blowpipes with 2D6 shots at S3 and poison with the new range of 18" over the single giant bow if I already have an EOTG steg. That is 4D6 poison shots at 18" range. You either have to avoid moving or shoot at close range of 9" in order to hit on 6's due to the multishot special rule penalty. So, the shots ae best when the steg is out of position to charge but already close in to battle and being used to set up a flank or rear charge (assuming the target unit does not turn around).

Also, if you are taking sharpened horns upgrade based on expecting to see monstrous units and monsters, lone characters, and chariots, then you really want an ancient steg for the S6 because your charge targets are likely T4 to T6 such that S6 matters and increases the number of wounds both due to grater wound probability and more likely to cut through 1+ to 4+ AS models.