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AoS Sud's Thunder Lizard Rules - With Testing Now!

Erta Wanderer said:
cool he looks like fun lets try to balance this out
Trait of the Savage no one would ever chose the FNP as +1 rend and attack is just to powerful to ignore
Trait of Beast Handling this makes razordons even more of a outo pick over salamanders maby salamanders get run/retreat and shoot to help with their terable range
the rest is good althou we need a range on living cover to ases it properly
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For Salamanders you mean they can shoot then retreat type of thing?

Living Cover says Terradons and Rippers within 12" are affected, wasnt sure if that was too small a range or not. I edited that in when you may have been commenting
 
Sudsinabucket said:
For Salamanders you mean they can shoot then retreat type of thing?

Living Cover says Terradons and Rippers within 12" are affected, wasnt sure if that was too small a range or not
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retreat is done in the movement phase so if they run or retreat then it can still shoot. salamanders have the problem that they only have a threat range of 16" witch means that they get charged and tied up the moment they are in range this would make then a descent switch hitter running into range shooting(missing everything becous they are salamanders sigh) geting charged and pulling out to shoot again on your next turn.

i missed that 12" is fine for terradons but unless he moves like lightning rippers will always be out of range thats the problem with buffing them. that sead if you changed it from an aura to 3 units within eh 32 ish then it would work
 
Erta Wanderer said:
retreat is done in the movement phase so if they run or retreat then it can still shoot. salamanders have the problem that they only have a threat range of 16" witch means that they get charged and tied up the moment they are in range this would make then a descent switch hitter running into range shooting(missing everything becous they are salamanders sigh) geting charged and pulling out to shoot again on your next turn.

i missed that 12" is fine for terradons but unless he moves like lightning rippers will always be out of range thats the problem with buffing them. that sead if you changed it from an aura to 3 units within eh 32 ish then it would work
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Makes sense, sorta. Do you mean 3 units total or 3 units of each?

What about the FNP? Not even if it negates both normal and mortal wounds?
 
Sudsinabucket said:
Makes sense, sorta. Do you mean 3 units total or 3 units of each?

What about the FNP? Not even if it negates both normal and mortal wounds?
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3 units total you don't normaly have more then that in the first place even less now that you are running a 1100 point monster

no giving them a 6+ feel no pain is about the same as +1 to saves. on the other hand for warriors +1 attacks meen that they have 3 at 30 models and then they get rend this is veeeery good it makes them sword masters in 20 man units and they will destroy stuff with clubs this is good 800 points is a lot and you need to get what you paid for but i would change the fnp to 5+ or reroll saves to make it worth the choice
 
Erta Wanderer said:
3 units total you don't normaly have more then that in the first place even less now that you are running a 1100 point monster

no giving them a 6+ feel no pain is about the same as +1 to saves. on the other hand for warriors +1 attacks meen that they have 3 at 30 models and then they get rend this is veeeery good it makes them sword masters in 20 man units and they will destroy stuff with clubs this is good 800 points is a lot and you need to get what you paid for but i would change the fnp to 5+ or reroll saves to make it worth the choice
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Command Trait

God Like Presence:

At the beginning of the shooting phase choose one of the following traits:

Trait of the Savage Primordials: Skinks/Saurus Warrior/Gaurd: additional 5+ FNP for both normal and mortal wounds damage, or -1 Rend/+1 ATK

Trait of Beast Handling:
Razordons: -1 Rend/16" range

Salamanders: Re-roll Hit Rolls of 1 and at the end of the your shooting phase you may retreat back 4"

Handlers: Bonuses apply at 9", rather than 3"

Trait of Honored Warriors: Kroxigor: Moonhammer range increased to 3"

Command ability:

Living Cover-

Pick 3 units of Terradons or Ripperdactyls within 32" they are hidden by the Thunderlizards bulk

Terradon Riders: Perched on the Thunderlizard far above the battle riders pick out their prey before swooping in unnoticed til the last moment + 2" range for Starstreak Javelin and Sunleech Bolas and -1 rend

Ripperdactyls: The Swooping Dive ability now applies -2 rend to a successful reroll attack during the combat phase with its Slashing Claws and Vicious Beak as the victim is caught totally guard as you do not have to declare that they are swooping down and are ripped and torn apart


Thoughts?
 
Sudsinabucket said:
Command Trait

God Like Presence:

At the beginning of the shooting phase choose one of the following traits:

Trait of the Savage Primordials: Skinks/Saurus Warrior/Gaurd: additional 5+ FNP for both normal and mortal wounds damage, or -1 Rend/+1 ATK

Trait of Beast Handling:
Razordons: -1 Rend/16" range

Salamanders: Re-roll Hit Rolls of 1 and at the end of the your shooting phase you may retreat back 4"

Handlers: Bonuses apply at 9", rather than 3"

Trait of Honored Warriors: Kroxigor: Moonhammer range increased to 3"

Command ability:

Living Cover-

Pick 3 units of Terradons or Ripperdactyls within 32" they are hidden by the Thunderlizards bulk

Terradon Riders: Perched on the Thunderlizard far above the battle riders pick out their prey before swooping in unnoticed til the last moment + 2" range for Starstreak Javelin and Sunleech Bolas and -1 rend

Ripperdactyls: The Swooping Dive ability now applies -2 rend to a successful reroll attack during the combat phase with its Slashing Claws and Vicious Beak as the victim is caught totally guard as you do not have to declare that they are swooping down and are ripped and torn apart


Thoughts?
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does the reroll for ripperdactyls aply to hit rerolls or wound rerolls? if it's hit rolls does it aply to all of the cascade attacks on Vicious Beaks?
 
@Erta Wanderer Is on point with their suggestions. Retreat/run and shoot is a better option for Salamanders.

The Handlers really become superfluous with the TL CT. It is probably worth dropping their buff completely, as the TL completely surpasses what buffs the Handlers give.

I will say that Rippers getting a -2 Rend on their Vicious Beaks re-reollable exploding hits is pretty nuts. I unit of 6 will shred nearly any model in the game with that buff. Then again, Skaven's MMMWP and Warp sparks can do the same thing when applied to several of their units and with the current power creep, I don't necessarily think it should be changed.
 
Wilhelm Stürmer said:
@Erta Wanderer Is on point with their suggestions. Retreat/run and shoot is a better option for Salamanders.

The Handlers really become superfluous with the TL CT. It is probably worth dropping their buff completely, as the TL completely surpasses what buffs the Handlers give.

I will say that Rippers getting a -2 Rend on their Vicious Beaks re-reollable exploding hits is pretty nuts. I unit of 6 will shred nearly any model in the game with that buff. Then again, Skaven's MMMWP and Warp sparks can do the same thing when applied to several of their units and with the current power creep, I don't necessarily think it should be changed.
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I think that is why he suggested only 3 units (Im assuming that means 3 models total) that could he effected and not every model like an aura would

And noted about the rest, Ive already added the hit and run but will drop the handlers!
 
Yeah, y'all added quite a bit more in the time it took me to read and post, so my post was a bit out of sync, lol.
 
Screenshot_20191024-080316_WH AoS.jpg
Wilhelm Stürmer said:
So, if I understand this correctly, the -2 Rend would ONLY apply to Hit rerolls being granted from their Swooping Dive, not to your initial successful Hit rolls, correct?
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Thats the idea, or what I had in mind? As you dont have to announce when youd use swooping dive per the TL command ability where as you normally would. I felt this offered some surprise tactics...again, never had played a game so I dont know how actually practical it is

But perhaps it should be the initial attack?
 
Sudsinabucket said:
I think that is why he suggested only 3 units (Im assuming that means 3 models total) that could he effected and not every model like an aura would

And noted about the rest, Ive already added the hit and run but will drop the handlers!
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no i mean units a unit 3/6/9/12 models depending on how you set it up
 
Sudsinabucket said:
View attachment 61262
Thats the idea, or what I had in mind? As you dont have to announce when youd use swooping dive per the TL command ability where as you normally would. I felt this offered some surprise tactics...again, never had played a game so I dont know how actually practical it is

But perhaps it should be the initial attack?
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No, I think that actually balances it a bit. -2 Rend on what could be 40 attacks could be triggering! It just means keeping track of your dice rolls.
 
Wilhelm Stürmer said:
No, I think that actually balances it a bit. -2 Rend on what could be 40 attacks could be triggering! It just means keeping track of your dice rolls.
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Perfect! Ill keep it as is then :) and add then to the official rules before posting again
 
@Sudsinabucket OH, when would you be able to use this CA? The default is during the Hero Phase, but there are many CAs that are usable at the beginning of other phases. As it applies to combat attacks, it seems to lend itself to be used at the beginning of the combat phase.
 
Wilhelm Stürmer said:
@Sudsinabucket OH, when would you be able to use this CA? The default is during the Hero Phase, but there are many CAs that are usable at the beginning of other phases. As it applies to combat attacks, it seems to lend itself to be used at the beginning of the combat phase.
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I was thinking it may depend on if you choose terradons or rippers? Beginning of shooting for terradons and beginning of combat for rippers? As they use different tactics? Or do both models engage in the combat phase? Just figured the 2" gain on ranged for terradons would be used during the shooting phase?
 
Sudsinabucket said:
I was thinking it may depend on if you choose terradons or rippers? Beginning of shooting for terradons and beginning of combat for rippers? As they use different tactics? Or do both models engage in the combat phase? Just figured the 2" gain on ranged for terradons would be used during the shooting phase?
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Good point, but then I think it should remain in one phase for both.
 
Wilhelm Stürmer said:
Good point, but then I think it should remain in one phase for both.
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Would the buff persist for rippers until the combat phase if used during the shooting phase? If not, it should probably be used during the combat phase...?

I like the idea of having to choose as that goes with the build/feel if the TL mechanics if being support...but I can maybe see why this would offer too much versatility?
 
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