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AoS Tactics for other Armies

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by Killer Angel, Jan 6, 2016.

  1. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    "Seraphon are overpowered", "Seraphon are broken", "you cannot beat Seraphon without summoning"...
    I've lost the count of how many times I've heard these sentences.
    I've used many approaches: ambushes with chama skinks / rypperdactils; block of temple guards with save at 2+ rerollable; brutal assault with thunderquake host; killing by summoning from afar with arcane vassal and spells; ...or a mix of those. The result has always been the same: I still have to lose a AoS battle. And my friends are now convinced that they cannot compete.

    Yeah, our army is strong, and yeah, we are overpowered... because AoS is.
    People don't see that synergies is the key... and the ones that see it, still fail to think to their units as tools to overcome specific threats (roles as assassins, monster hunters, and so on).

    So this thread wants to be a comprehensive list for ALL the other AoS' armies, including powerful tactics and units analysis... this way, when you'll heard the aforementioned complains, you can show your friends their mistakes, and even play a game using their army, while they use Seraphon... and possibly win.

    I'll start with Dwarfs, then probably Ogre.... but this thread is open to everyone that wants to contribute, and will be a work in progress, adjusting the various tactics when suggestions will come.

    Hope it helps also Seraphon's players that have other armies.


    EDIT
    List of already developed armies (in order of appearance):
    page 1 - Dwarfs
    page 1 - Bretonnia
    page 1 - Stormcast Eternals
    page 1 - Ogre Kingdoms
    page 1 - The Empire (gunline)
    page 2 - Goblins (forest)
    page 3 - Wood Elves
    page 3 - Goblins (night)
    page 4 - Tomb Kings (2 reviews)
    page 4 - The Empire (knights)
    page 6 - Vampire Counts
    page 6 - Daemons - Tzeentch
    page 10 - Skaven (plague)
    page 10 - Dwarfs (miners)
    page 10 - Beastmen
    page 10 - Dark Elves
    page 11 - Orcs (2 reviews)
    page 11 - Flesh Eater Courts
    page 12 - High Elves / Collegiate Arcane
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
  2. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    DWARFS


    Brief Units’ analysis
    (aka not all of them)


    Heroes

    Dwarfs’ heroes are many, and lots of them are good, and not because of their combat prowess.

    We are interested in some of their abilities (read: synergies)…

    High King Thorgrim: select an enemy unit, all dwarfs can reroll failed wound rolls. Command ability: all dwarfs’ units within 8” gain an extra attack in combat

    Belegar Ironhammer: double attacks once per battle. Command ability: pick one enemy unit within 16”, all dwarfs’ units gain an extra attack in combat Vs it.

    Ungrim Ironfist: extra attacks to Slayers. Command ability; select a dwarfs unit, it gains +1 to hit and wound rolls in combat.

    Dwarf Lord: Command ability: pick one enemy unit within 16”, all dwarfs’ units gain +1 to wound rolls Vs it (not limited to combat phase!).

    Josef Bugman: Bugman’s quarrelers is one of the best unit of dwarfs. Plus tankard for healing.

    Grimm Burlokkson: acts as engineer, heals warmachines and can give additional range to quarrelers

    Runelord: +2 to dispel, can select a unit within 16” and protect it (additional save at 6, even against mortal wounds), or increase the rend characteristic.

    Troops:

    Longbeards: I have no words to describe how much i love these guys. They can let all the heroes within 8” to use their command ability, even if they’re not the general. Now, look again at ALL the aforementioned command abilities, and smile.

    Quarrelers: their shooting range is 20”. With Grimm is 26”. If they’re in a unit of 20 model, they shoot twice. With Bugman they can appear everywhere in the battlefield (in a safe place tnx to the huge range) and slay almost any target. It’s the dwarfs’ version of our chama skinks (not as good as them, but highly worthwhile).

    Slayers: they die fast (but can retaliate with mortal wounds), but shine against monsters or models with more than 1 wound, and they have a free extra attack if near Ungrim. Tnx to Longbeards, 10 slayers can potentially deliver 50 attacks in one round, at +2/+2 with rend -1.

    Irondrakes: they shoot at 16, starting at +3, +3, rend -1 and can shoot twice if don’t move; the Ironwarden shoots at 20”, delivering d3 / d6. In CC they save at +4 and negate rend unless -2 so they can resist some blow. Excellent unit for any gun line.

    Ironbreakers: they save at 4, rerollable, and negate rend unless -2. Near a runelord with ancestral shield, they’re the dwarfs’ most durable unit.

    Hammerers: save at 4, 2 attacks at +3, +3, rend -1, easily immune to battleshock. They hit harder than ironbreakers, but die more easily.

    Warmachines

    The bulk of any dwarfs army. You can’t go wrong, but they work in different ways. I’ll consider them with the bonuses given by an engineer / Burloksson.

    Grudge thrower: range 40”, 2 attacks +3 / +3, rend -2, 3 dam. Can hit units not visible. It’s your killer of heroes / other warmachines. In combo with Bugmans’ rangers, you can kill any target you want.

    Cannon: range 32”… not impressive, but 2 attacks, +4/+2, rend -2, d6 dam. You reroll failed to hit and against units with more than 10 models, you can reroll damage. Use it against big units that dare to march toward you.

    Flame cannons. Range 24”. Not long, but… you don’t have to roll. Repeat with me: Automatic hit, the enemy needs only to be within range. D6 mortal wounds, plus 50% of another additional d6.

    Organ gun. Range 28”. Probably the weaker, it can jam, but you reroll the jamming percentage, and you can shoot 4d6 shots at +3/+3, rend -1, 1 dam.

    All warmachines (except flame cannon) benefit from Dwarf Lord’s Command ability and Runelord’s rend.



    Army List & strategy
    (sort of)

    I’m not a huge fan of AoS’ lists, given that they depend too much on the system you’re using. For example, a list based on wounds format, cannot be replicated with Azyr composition.

    However, the basic tactic should be similar, and you only need to adjust the list: for the following army, I’ll keep Bainbow’s method (125 wounds).



    Artillery Battery formation (total 27 wounds):

    Grudge thrower

    Cannon

    Flame cannon

    + Grimm Burloksson

    Belegar Ironhammer, Ungrim Ironfist, Dwarf Lord, 2 Runelord, J. Bugman (total 31 wounds)

    26 Quarrelers

    10 Longbeards

    16 Irondrakes

    15 Slayers


    Field in defensive position, possibly with the battery in a piece of terrain for saves at 3 rerollable.

    The irondrakes will shield your commend group, filled with heroes, the longbeards and the Slayers.

    If you’re not playing with objectives, the enemy must come to take you… of course, you must fear things that can kill you from very far away (Doom diver catapults, Empire’s cannon, Kroak’s Comet, and similar), and things that can kill you with minions (Slann summoning with BSB and arcane vassal, or summoner in general). These should be your "kill it ASAP".

    Choose the target you need to kill, pop the quarrelers (Bugman will stay near heroes, for his healing ability), kill the target (if there’s need, you can also move and shoot with the grudge thrower).

    Other good targets may be nasty heroes (a Ogre Tyrant, to remove immunity to shock before firing with cannons), huge units of shooters (Peasant Bowmen), anything that can create problems and that can buff other units while staying out of range (generals, Sigmar’s altar, and so on).

    With 26” range, you can shoot without risking a retaliation, even from the fastest units. Then retreat toward your line running at 8”, and lure some enemy into range of your artillery… and if they don’t pursue (and even if they do), at that point you’ll have also the bonus to rend from the runelord.

    This way, you should be able to remove the unit (s) that can mess with your plan, and force the enemy to enter into the valley of death.

    You’ll have lots of firing power and an excellent range, not only from warmachines, but also from irondrakes and quarrelers: while the enemy advances or tries to manoveur, you will have the support of the bonuses from runelords and dwarf lord, to increase the to wound and the rend.

    You can choose to keep the irondrakes in a single unit (to maximise the bonus from runelord), or divide them in 2/3 units (to have more Ironwardens with Trollhammer Torpedo for that sweet d3/d6 dam)… it depends on what you’re facing.

    Keep in mind that you must obliterate one target at a time, it’s far better than weakening lots of units… you don’t care if a group of ten Ironguts arrives in CC… the line of irondrakes will absorb the first charge, leaving intact the units behind… and that point, you’ll deliver the killing blow of 15 slayers, delivering 60 attacks with the combined bonuses from all you heroes’ command abilities, plus runelords.
    Of course, there are some things that you cannot really stop: ambush from chama skink is a thing. But your valuable target are warmachines (that are in cover with a +3 rerollabe, and can be healed) and heroes (that can be healed, and anyway you can afford to lose one of them).

    The list is obviously modifiable: you can shift a cannon for a second Grudge thrower… you can sacrifice a couple of quarrelers, an irondrake and the dwarf lord, to insert Thorgrim. The style remains the same. And if the enemy learns that longbeards are the key, you only need to field a little more of 'em, and protect them with ancestral shield.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2016
  3. Bainbow
    Bastiladon

    Bainbow Well-Known Member

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    [randomly selects an army]
    Bretonnia, good choice! Going to use a 125 Wound format because that's how we roll at my place.

    King Louen (10)
    Fay Enchantress (15)
    Paladin (20)
    40 Peasant Bowmen (60)
    32 Knights of the Realm/Grail Knights (124 wounds)

    Strategy:
    Keep Louen back to take advantage of his battleshock immunity, it's insanely good. His command ability can also be used to counter -1 To Hit effects such as Starlight or Slaanesh daemons.
    Split your Knights into two units and have them work in tandem to selectively destroy certain units. Use your superior maneuverability afforded by your great move and small numbers to bait key units away from the rest of their army before hammering into them with charges. Only charge one unit in so that next turn you may retreat them and then charge the second unit in, then retreat them and charge the first again. The reason for this is so that you constantly keep up your +1 save, +1 To Wound, and +1 Damage which can make you much harder to kill while doing potentially severe damage.
    Whichever unit of Knights is about to charge, ensure that the Fay Enchantress casts Favour of the Fay on them. Due to their normal 3+ to hit, the +2 To Hit that Favour grants results in auto-hits by your chosen knights, with Louen's command ability ensuring that no pesky -1 To Hits will stop that. Grail Knights are better due to their Rend, but either will do as both get 2 attacks each thanks to the unit size bonus of the regular Knights. The Grail Knights normal reroll to hits ability when near her is not important because they auto-hit anyway. With her second spell, grant the charging unit a Mystic Shield to bring their armour save up to a huge 2+ on the charge. Keep her at a safe distance from the fight, she only needs to be 16" away from where your chosen unit is standing before they move and charge so she can be a way away. If you feel like it, you can also have retreating units get in close to her to receive her D3 heal to bring any injured knights up to full wounds.
    Finally the Peasants. Gonna be honest, Peasant Bowmen are amazing, I've seen just 20 take down Skarbrand in one volley. Unless your opponent has absolutely no ranged attacks including magic, you want to keep your peasants in one big unit. This is so you can take true advantage of their arrowstorm ability, which is a one-use only ability which causes your bowmen to fire four shots each in one attack. You want to keep them all together because if your unit drops below 20 people, this ability goes down to only three shots which can make a huge difference. Once your opponent's most valuable unit or model walks within 20" of this unit, Arrowstorm the hell out of them. Units such as Deathstars or Archaons, things you really can't afford to let live. You may even have your knights bait such targets into range. Though they only have a 5+ To Hit, a Paladin nearby will grant them a +1 to their hit roll, and granting them the Favour of the Fay for this one volley only will upgrade this by another +1, giving them a mighty 3+ To Hit with up to 160 attacks, enough to put down practically anything. In addition, if you chose to give these guys Braziers as I do then you're getting rerolls of 1's To Wound, adding more killing power. And even when they're not using this insane ability, they're still unloading plenty of shots. Their only weakness is their awful bravery (seriously I once killed one with a spell and three more ran because of Battleshock,) but Louen negates this. Thanks, Louen.

    And there you have it. This army is dependent on your ability to outmaneuver your enemy, but that's really what knights like Bretonnia should be about anyway. If you can dominate the movement phases, you win the game.
    Strong against slow, defensive armies such as Temple Guard armies, gunline Empire, dwarfs, Stormcast Eternals.
    Weak against fast armies such as Beastmen and Khorne Bloodbound.
     
  4. StealthKnightSteg
    Razordon

    StealthKnightSteg Well-Known Member

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    Stormcast Eternals

    Unit analysis

    Heroes

    Lord-Celestant on Dracoth: Command Ability very strong when you field lot's of the lesser troops and expecting some losses. Very good as support unit to add in a fight, but don't outrun your army or he will die soon.

    Lord-Celestant: Command Ability very good with backing up combat

    Lord-Relictor: a bit unreliable but can be handy when trying to save another hero from death.

    Lord-Castelant: very situational, only shines against chaos units, might help with a little damage output from a second line of combat due to 2" weapon range. The bonus save might make a unit endure better when needed.

    Knight-Venator: This is your Hero/monster hunter, paired with a Lord-Celestant huge with ranged damaged output, but for god sake keep this one out of combat! With 12" movement that should not be that hard!

    Knight-Azyros: This is your Achmed (the dead terrorist), especially good in combination with the Thunderstrike Brotherhood (battalion scroll, starterset) and any of the Chamber (battalion scroll) both employ lightning strike ability. Use him to get him in the center of the enemy then blow his lantern to soften stuff up and then land your troops around him for short range charges. If you got some shooting units also then you can use his re-roll 1's to hit also to soften stuff even more. He will be key in the tactic.

    Knight-Vexillor: Meteoric Standard for some extra ranged damage, but one use. Pennant is better to land a unit somewhere near a remote target that you can't reach or in the centre of a massive get together.

    Knight-Heraldor: Good for use to make units retreat and charge again (Lord-Celestant on Dracoth for adding the extra attacks again? :) ) And situational use against armies or players that like to use a lot of terrain features.

    Celestant-Prime: plant him in turn 3-4 as your power killer, but beware he does go down pretty fast if swamped or pitted against a high damage output unit (bloodthirsters)

    Troops

    Gryph Hounds: very situational, for maximum effect needs to be close to a Lord-Castellant and best used against armies/units that suddenly can pop up on the field close to your troops.

    Judicators: your stock ranged unit, best with bows, but can be really good with crossbows when used as one of the units to lightning strike with. Specialist bow on the Prime, specialist crossbow on normal dude (wasteful of his extra to hit which is not used)

    Liberators: your stock infantry unit. Not very good. Use the specialist weapons on the Prime for the extra attacks. If you do want to make use of the Lay Low the Tyrants ability use the paired warblades. That will be a to hit on a 2 with re-rolls on 1.

    Retributors: Your heavy hitters, best used on units with high wound models. Starsoul mace best on normal dude.

    Protectors: Extra damage potential against monsters, also best used as a frontline unit aganst shooty armies/units due to the -1 to hit against them and any unit behind them. Starsoul Mace on normal dude, but no sure if it's handy if you want this unit to go monster hunting.. you might want the extra possibility on a d6 damage (needs math or playtesting)

    Decimators: best use against massive hordes of low wound models. Skaven slaves / clanrats, goblins etc.. make use of the ability to spread your models max 1" to get as many models within range. Only use a Starsoul Mace on normal dude if you thing you need it when facing another unit in the same combat with more wounds.

    Prosecutors (with celestial hammers): this is your fast fighting unit with extra benefit of shooting. Still squishy so use them as bait or as fast support. Special weapons on Prime if wanted, besides the Grandaxe, do that on a normal dude. Best used with paired hammers as you want to help dish out damage not trying to hold up on your own getting damage.

    Prosecutors (with javelins): this is your fast shooting unit, have this unit harass the enemy lines where needed or even try to hero / warmachine hunt. Trident on Prime.

    Army strategy:

    Fast attack:
    The easier one:
    Needed: the Lightningstrike Brotherhood: Lord-Celestant on Dracoth, Lord-Relictor, 1 unit of Retributors, 1 unit of prosecutors, 2 units of Liberators (starterbox) + Knight-Azyros.. anything else is bonus. Note: you might want to buff up the Retributors to up to 5 or more (instead of the 3 in the starterbox).

    The more difficult one:
    Needed for a chamber:
    Lords of the host (1 Lord-Celestant or Lord-Celestant on Dracoth - - 1 Lord-Relictor - - 0-1 Units of Gryph-hounds - - 2-5 Units in any combination of: Lord-Castellant, Knight-Heraldor, Knight-Vexillor, Knight-Azyros, Knight- Venator (Use the Knight Azyros in combination with Knight-Heraldor or Venator)
    for a Warrior chamber:
    3 Thunderhead Brotherhoods each consists of:
    - - 3 units of Liberators (needing 9 for chamber)
    - - 2 units of Judicators (needing 6 for chamber)

    - 3 Hammerstrike Forces each consists of:
    - - 2 units of Retributors (Paladins) (needing 6 for chamber)
    - - 1 unit of Prosecutors (needing 3 for chamber)

    for a Harbinger Chamber:
    - 3 Vanguard Wings each consists of:
    - - 3 Units of Prosecutors (needing 9 for chamber)
    - - 1 Unit of Liberators (needing 3 for chamber)

    for an Examplar Chamber:
    - 3 Devastation Hosts each consists of:
    - - 1 Unit of Retributors (Paladins) (3 needed for chamber)
    - - 1 Unit of Protectors (Paladins) (3 needed for chamber)
    - - 1 Unit of Decimators (Paladins) (3 needed for chamber)
    - - 1 Unit of Prosecutors (3 needed for chamber)

    The Only way to Lightning Strike in the special option of a heavy hitting shooting unit is with the Warrior Chamber (Judicators with crossbows)
    The Warrior Chamber has another advantage and that is that it's Retributors in the Hammerstrike Force can also be kept in reserve and used to lightning strike elsewhere on the battle field near their Prosecutors. This can also be offset once by using the Knight-Heraldor to relocate a unit to somewhere needed.

    This tactic starts with deploying a small taskforce (some shooting units with a little proctection) with the Knight-Azyros while the rest sits and wait in the Celestial realm. Making the small taskforce the target for your opponent to go towards. Meanwhile use the Knight-Azyros to creep up towards the enemy line where it's most dense. Make use of scenery to obscure line of sight and added cover bonus till you can land him right smack in the middle of your opponent. Still in the Movement phase you can now Lightning Strike every unit you deem necessary and can employ due to room limitations, so keep this in mind where you setup your Knight-Azyros. If you think you need to wait another turn for your opponent to get in a more open space then do so if you won't loose your Knight-Azyros in the process.

    Any shooting will now benefit from the re-roll 1's to hit aura the Knight-Azyros generates (so bonus units for the Thunderstrike Brotherhood and the Prosecutors) that you have setup in your initial taskforce. To soften up the enemy, then charge in with your combat units from close range. Adding the Knight-Vexillor in on the lightningstrike you can make sure they all make their charges, or the dice gods really hate you. Adding in the Lord-Celestant on foot will make your combat units do even better next round when you can get his command ability up.
    Taking out as much of the heroes as possible with you heavy hitters and make other units being tied up in combat with Liberators. Now if you haven't cleared all then the next Herophase it's time for your second act by your Knight-Azyros to blow the bomb to make your lightningstrike impact even more inspirational. Especially good when fighting anything with the Chaos keyword!

    Gunline... ehmm Arrowline:
    Needed:
    Lord-Celestant on Dracoth for the command ability, you will be fielding lot's of troops with this one and you don't want them to run off after a few casualties.
    Knight-Venator for taking out any heroes / monsters
    Thunderhead Brotherhood times x (depending on how big your games are)
    -2 units Judicators with bows (range)
    -3 units Liberators
    Giving a +1 to save roll for your Judicators if you keep your Judicators behind the Liberators.
    atleast 1 unit of Protectors with enough models to cover the width of your army. Or use multiple units to achieve this. To give enemy -1 to hit on everything in your army behind them.
    Optional but dearly recommended:
    Knight-Azyros to setup near the unit(s) you want to demolish with your arrow barrage giving a re-roll of 1's to hit on those units for your shooting. Maybe add a detail of Prosecutors (with javelins) for security just in case.
    Lord Castellant can be handy to give your first line of defense another +1 to save

    Tactic:
    To bunker up your Heroes and shooting stuff behind the Liberators and those behind your Protectors.
    Use your Knight Azyros (with protection detail) to light up units you want to kill by moving towards them and making use of cover as long as he is within 10" of your intended target. Might even want to use the Knight-Vexillor to be able to plant him somewhere behind enemy lines to take out an artillery piece or big shooty enemy. Move up all in conjunction to keep stuff in range for your shooting, but don't break formation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2016
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  5. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    This is starting to be a very good thread, loving reading the tactics etc :)
     
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  6. Bainbow
    Bastiladon

    Bainbow Well-Known Member

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    Damn, they would have been my next one to write here, I'd have described the Stormcast army I actually own and how I use it. Ah well.
     
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  7. StealthKnightSteg
    Razordon

    StealthKnightSteg Well-Known Member

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    You can still do it if you have other tactics then me to use or to add to my unit summary :)
    Love to hear other tactics
     
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  8. tom ndege
    Skar-Veteran

    tom ndege Well-Known Member

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    Nice one! Good thread! Good idea! Very interesting to see how other armies work... Good job!
     
  9. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Yeah, that was my idea.
    Once we have a tactic for an army, the one that wrote it can implement it, after contributions and tips from other posters. It's a work in progress.

    My next army will be Ogre Kingdom... but of course, it will be my idea of how they should be played.
     
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  10. Bainbow
    Bastiladon

    Bainbow Well-Known Member

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    In fact, idea. Somebody give me an army to do next, any army.
     
  11. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    'til now, we have good guys. Time to go for the dark side... ;)

    EDIT: on a second thought, I would like to read your take on Empire....
     
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  12. Bainbow
    Bastiladon

    Bainbow Well-Known Member

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    Ah, Empire. I did a gunline on that one once. To my extreme pride, I taught it to some kid at my GW and he went away and then came back two weeks later having improved it. Somebody was taking my stuff and making to better, I was so happy that this tactical torch was getting passed.
    So I'll describe the build with his improvements, but just wanted to get that disclaimer out of the way.
     
  13. StealthKnightSteg
    Razordon

    StealthKnightSteg Well-Known Member

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    I'm interested in your Empire take also, hopefully also beyond the gunline. I'm eager to see if can improve as well there as Empire is my main army.. or was and probably will be again when Free People will be released.
     
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  14. Crowsfoot
    Slann

    Crowsfoot Guardian of Paints Staff Member

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    All gobbo army please, no Orcs or giant but Trolls are ok
     
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  15. Bainbow
    Bastiladon

    Bainbow Well-Known Member

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    Empire now, gobbos next. All shall be done in my native 125 wound format because screw the other balancing systems, they suck so badly and handicap the game. So here's my Empire Gunline army, but modified to have a solid and heavy melee edge that will prevent you from getting destroyed if the enemy survives your volleys. And a war machine thrown in for a nice additional range. So I present to you the "What's A 'To-Hit' Roll" Empire build.

    Battalion: State Troop Detachment
    Marius Leitdorf [as your Empire General and actual general] (6)
    30 Empire Handgunners (36)
    50 Empire State Troops [split into 2 units] (86)
    20 Greatswords (106)
    Celestial Hurricanum w/ Celestial Wizard (117)
    Empire Mortar (124)

    For this army, formation is key. Well, formation is key for most armies, but that's another topic. You want to keep your main trio, the Handgunners and two State Troop units, in a U shape with the Handgunners flanked on either side by State Troops who are positioned ahead of the gunners so that anyone attempting to charge the gunners would immediately be forced into combat with two units of angry State Troops on either side, crushing the poor unit, in addition to stopping anyone getting close enough to reliably charge the gunners anyway. They should be within 6" of the Hangunners at all times so that everyone may benefit from the Battalion's abilities. Behind them should be the Hurricanum, keeping everyone within 10" to get that sweet Portents of Battle buff active on as many units as possible. As such, your U formation should be relatively tight, though not so tight as to restrict your gunners' line of sight, remember that only one State Troop needs to be within 10" of the Hurricanum for his entire unit to get the buff. Around the Hurricanum should be Marius, his Greatswords, and the Mortar.
    This army is primarily defensive, so as such you want to priorotise your defensive capabilities. As your State Troops are pretty much making a human shield wall to block out any unwanted attackers, they should come equipped with Swords and Shields so that they may get the +1 Save from the Parry bonus granted by the swords, and the rerolls of 1 that come with the shields. In addition, whichever unit you believe is going to take the most damage in the upcoming turn should be given a Mystic Shield from your Celestial Wizard, giving the humble State Troop unit a mighty 3+ save with rerolls of 1, making them a great defensive unit. In addition, on a roll of 1 or 2 they totally ignore battleshock thanks to the Battalion rules, giving them an almost Dwarf-like stubbornness that will only serve to make your life easier. In addition, thanks to the Battalion and Hurricanum both giving a +1 To Hit bonus, they'll be hitting on a 2+, not bad at all for a unit we've designed for defense. And for as long as you keep your State Troop units above 20 men, you get another +1 To Hit to give you a full on auto-hit, though this ability is harder to keep due to the job of these troops being to take the pain. Still, it may help for your first melee round.
    Of course you can't win without killing your enemy, however, so the real damage dealers will take the form of your Handgunners. Though they have a 5+ To Hit, by not moving they gain a +1, then they gain another +1 from the Battalion perks, then they gain another +1 for having more than 20 members of the unit, then they gain a final +1 for being within range of the Hurricanum's Portents of Battle ability. This gives them a 1+ To Hit, giving you pretty much an automatic hit unless the enemy can give you a To Hit debuff such as our Starlight. This means that you'll only need to roll a 3+ To Wound in order to do some damage, giving you and average of 20 Wounds caused per shooting phase, before armour saves. Though aggressive armies do average out at about a 5+ armour save and these guys do Rend at -1, so that's not going to be too much of an issue. And with the at least 2+ To Hit of their State Troop buddies, your enemies should feel some real pain. In addition, you have your Hurricanum's Storm of Shemtek that has the ability to churn out a simply unfair amount of Mortal Wounds as a shooting attack, really bringing the hurt too. You really don't need any more, but your Greatswords can be used as further reinforcements, jumping into a fight your State Troops are struggling with to offer much needed relief. If you moved them into a good position ahead of time, they may even Counter-Charge into combat, though I would not advise this as they're much frailer than your State Troops and the enemy may choose to attack them instead of your State Troops, which is bad news. However with the Honour Guard rule, the bonus from the Battalion, and if your movement is clever and smooth enough to keep them within range of the Portents of Battle, these guys too will auto-hit with a 1+ To Hit, only they have a 3+ To Wound and a Rend of -1 which your State Troops lack, making them solid reinforcements.
    Now, Marius Leitdorf. You may be wondering why I chose this lunatic to fill out the Battalion instead of, say, a regular Empire General. The reason for this is because the regular Empire General offers bonuses to your Hit and Wound rolls, the former of which you really do not need, and the General on a Griffon only offers the Hit bonus, making him much weaker as you're already auto-hitting with basically everyone. Marius, however, gives you something much more useful. Sure his Command Ability is randomised, but every one of its effects are very valuable to you. On a roll of 1-2, an enemy unit will be saddled with a -1 To Hit, making it all the more difficult to penetrate your State Troop defenses. On a 3-4 he gives you immunity to Battleshock, very valuable with your low Bravery on your State Troops which can be catastrophic if things go wrong in a Battleshock Phase. But on a 5-6, he lets one unit attack twice in either the shooting phase of the combat phase. Your Handgunners, who are easily the main damage dealers of your army, now rip off twice as many shots. This is enough to outright destroy a great number of units or monsters with 60 whole shots. Have mercy. Roll a 1-4 and it'll help you survive longer, even outlive your enemy. But a 5-6 can end the game at the right time. And that's why we take Marius. Also his invisible horse rule is hilarious.
    Finally the mortar. Really that's... nothing special. Just fire at big units to soften them up with up to 2D6 damage. However, because you may have noticed this is a bit of a running theme in this army, it hits on 2+ so your Hurricanum will net it an auto-hit. And with the lack of a need for line of sight, this makes it an ideal war machine for your back line.
     
  16. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    I'll comment on it later. ;)
    But now...




    OGRE KINGDOMS


    Brief units & army’s analysis


    Heroes

    Greasus Gooldtooth: could be really interesting, but his command ability is unplayable, ‘cause depends too much on agreement between players. He won’t be included in my list. (Of course, if in your meta can happen that Greasus bribes Glade Guards into attacking the Wood Elf wizard, go for it!)

    Tyrant: your general. A melee monster with rerollable to hit, and can give immunity to battleshock test to one unit

    BSB: all ogor units within a 18” radius deliver additional mortal wounds on rolls of 6. Good!

    Butcher: the maw spell could literally chomp away units. You need wizards, and this guy is so much better than the other one in the role (Firebelly).

    Golgfag maneater: he obviously buffs maneaters, and will have a random special wargear to increase his CC (rend -3), saves (3 instead of 4) or shooting (up to range 18” and 3 dam).

    Troops

    Ogres: big guys, good number of attacks and nice damage, lots of nice abilities (reroll combat dices, inflict wounds on successful saves rolling 6, free save on 6 vs shooting)

    Ironguts: ogres’ big brothers. They have less abilities, but better save, and rune maw bearers can shield them from magic (but don’t count on it) and under right conditions, they can reroll all ones.

    Gorgers: they can ambush (but in a poor effective way, given that they don’t act when they appear…), and they can run and charge. Sadly, their combat stats aren't that impressive.

    Ironblaster: cannon with move 7”, but short range, single shot and not too much reliable, unless you’re targeting large units

    Gnoblar scraplauncher: range 33”, single shot, even less reliable than Ironblaster, but the damage can be nice against large units.

    Hunter: nice ranged attack if he runs (range 18”, dam d6), and gives + to the charge of Sabretusks.

    Mournfang cavalry: ogres on mounts, with many similar abilities, but better saves, far more attacks and superior move (and can reroll dices for charge distance).

    Maneaters: (play them with Golgfag to reroll 1s to wound). In CC, they’re ogres with less abilities but with more attacks, better to hit and rend. Plus, they shoot at 12” for d3 dam and can have a special ability of your choice (run & charge, immunity to battleshock and so on).

    Monsters

    Stonehorn: ohohoheheh… 12 wounds, and halves ALL the damage inflicted to it (stone skeleton). Can run and charge, and at full strength, moves at 8”. Devastating number of attacks, and d6 mortal wounds on charge. And comes with a nice ranged attack (or with a Vulture, that can automatically deliver d3 mortal wounds within 30”, but you could miss the intended target)

    Thundertusk: ohohoheheh… stonehorn’s cousin, without Stone Skeleton, but with double ranged attack: one is the same as Stonehorn (with the option of blood vulture)… and the second one can deliver (at top) 6 mortal wounds within 18”, on a mere roll of 2+.

    Giant: great number of attacks, but the real damage is limited to a couple of them. CC only.

    Overall impression

    The strength of this army it’s also its weakness. They’re mostly melee monsters (once in CC, they have the edge), but they don’t have a “real” shooting, they don’t summon, they don’t have almost any way to surprise enemies and basically anyone in assassin role. And if this wasn’t enough, they have literally no way to protect themselves from assassins, ambushes, and similar tactics.

    Any Ogre’s player should be well aware of this, and work around it (the alternative is losing also in CC, because in the end, if your heroes are dead, your 10 Ironguts simply cannot overcome a unit with rerollable saves of 2+, such 10 buffed Temple Guards).

    A friend of mine is a hardcore Ogres’ player, but he thinks with 8 ed. mentality (blocks of ogres and Ironguts, brutal frontal charge, using the Gutbuster wartribe formation). Against some armies, it works, but playing Seraphons, I beat them on a regular basis, without breaking a sweat.

    My idea is that, given that Ogres rely mostly on CC, you need to be in it ASAP… and possibly even faster than that. And you also need instruments to hit at a distance, because you need to kill the protected key units of the enemy. You simply cannot leave the time to your opponent to think and develop dangerous attacks or to deplete your forces.



    Army List & strategy

    (given the standard of this thread, I’ll use the 125 wounds format… but keep in mind that this IMO penalizes Ogres. Using other systems, point based, Ogres tend to field a greater number of “wounds” than their opponent).


    Beastclaw avalanche formation (total 66 wounds):

    1 Stonehorn (w bloodvulture)

    1 Thundertusk (w Frost-wreathed ice and bloodvulture)

    2 units (3 + 4) Mournfang cav.

    BSB, 3 butchers, Golgfag Maneater (total 35 wounds)

    6 Maneaters (24 wounds)


    Wait, what? Killer Angel, you’ve just said that ogres need ranged attacks… and no Ironblaster? You’ve said that Tyrant is the general… and you don’t field him?

    Yeah. I don’t need ‘em in this list.

    You field very few models, so you go first, and the main bulk of your army is fast. You field the formation as ahead as you can, then with the butchers you give mystic shield to the units of the formations (giving them a nice save on 3).

    Then you run with all your models (obviously): with move 8, 9 and 12, you will be since the first turn very near the enemy lines, and then you start shooting.

    This part is tricky… in the second turn, tnx to the charge with 3 dices, rerollable for the cavalry and with move 12” for the Stonehorn, you are basically sure that you’ll enter in CC: you need to evaluate exactly where you need to place your models at the end of your first movement.

    If you’re facing units such Empire’s Handgunners, or Dwarf’s Irondrakes (units that shoot at 16” and need to don’t move if they want to have bonuses), then 17” is the optimal distance, because the range of Frost-wreathed ice of the Thundertusk is 18”. This means that you will have an available target that will suffer 6 mortal wounds (possibly a unit of pesky shooters), than you use the blood vultures, against that same unit, minimizing the retaliation.

    If the situation is different (bowmen, and similar things with more range), You will suffer the enemy shooting, but you should have wounded its main threatening unit (if I kill 8 Empire crossbowmen on 30, they will shoot “only” 44 quarrels, not 60), AND your units have mystic shield. The enemy will concentrate fire, and probably you will lose one unit, but the Stonehorn should be save.

    Then the butchers Mystic Shield the units still alive, the BSB give the bonus for additional wounds, and you can charge with the Avalanche. You’ll deliver d6 mortal wounds for the effect of the avalanche charge, additional mortal wounds for the Mounfang charge, d6 mortal wounds for the stonehorn’s charge (plus other mortal wounds during your second shooting phase, tnx to Frost-wreathed ice and Vultures). Then, in CC, you will deliver a large number of attacks… a single unit of 3 mournfang cavalry will roll 21 attack, rerolling 1, and inflicting additional mortal wound on 6 (tnx to BSB), with parry on 6 for additional mortal wounds, and giving penalties to battleshock tests.

    The enemy line will crumble into pieces… but things can go wrong, you can suffer more losses than you was thinking, the enemy could be lucky or smart, maybe some units sacrificed themselves to let other ones to counterattack (you wiped away the line of Dwarf’s Irondrakes, only to be charged by Slayers).

    At that point, it’s the third round, and you’ll have the second wave of attackers: the 3 running butchers, should be at range to cast three Maws (one maw doesn’t scare me, but three? It’s a nightmare), and then you’ll have also the maneaters with Golgfag, that will be at shooting range… and their shooting hurts (d3), plus, they will be at full health (because the enemy was occupied with the avalanche), and they’ll charge the remnants of the enemy’s unit (we’re talking about a unit with 6 guys stronger than Ogres, with solid save, and buffed by Golgfag).


    Another option could be: screw the Maneaters, I’ll use FOUR butchers, and a unit of gorgers.

    The avalanche (completely buffed by 4 Mystic Shield) will run, and you place the unit of 5 gorgers at 12” of distance on a flank of the enemy. In the second turn, your whole army will be in close combat… your opponent will have too many targets to be effective, and all are an immediate threat.

    Gorgers are not exceptional (save at 6), but placed at 12” cannot be ignored… and probably, given that they’re so close, the enemy will target them, thus saving intact the Avalanche. You have no reinforcement, but an intact Avalanche should suffice… and the Maws will do the rest.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
  17. Bainbow
    Bastiladon

    Bainbow Well-Known Member

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    Greasus is pretty much worshipped by my gaming circle, I can almost hear them gasping because you said that you wouldn't take him. :D
     
  18. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Eh, the issue it's not simple.
    It's not a matter of "if you have a drink in hand gain a +1"... it's "take control of an enemy unit if the opponent agrees and accepts your offer".
    How can you rule such a thing?!?
     
  19. Bainbow
    Bastiladon

    Bainbow Well-Known Member

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    Very easily, here's how it went down a couple of weeks ago for my group.

    "Hey, I'll give you this Mars bar if I can make your Glade Guard shoot at your Spellsinger."
    "Throw a polo into the deal, I know you have a packet on you."
    "Deal."
    *Glade Guard attack the Wood Elf wizard*
     
    Crowsfoot, Killer Angel and tom ndege like this.
  20. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    That's Amazing... :D

    OK, the part regarding Greasus has been edited, but I won't include it anyway in the list. :p
     

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