AoS The AoS 2.0 Tactics Thread

[Asamu]

Idiot question here but how does the summoning work is it as much as they want.

What do you mean?
Do you mean the points generation from the slann to summon units (there's a table and you get 1 point + 3 points per spell you don't cast + d3 if you have an astrolith: Use generated points to summon one unit at the end of the movement phase with summoning costs ranging from 6pts for 10 skinks to 24 for a carnosaur/bastiladon)
The Engine of the gods - set list to choose from - 3 rippers/terradons, 20 skinks, or 10 saurus
or Endless Spells - A wizard can summon one endless spell per turn, but you cannot recast an endless spell that is still active.
or with no longer having reinforcement points? - you can summon as much as you are able to over the course of the game with generated reinforcement points, 14-17 EoTG rolls, and endless spells that get cast and dispelled.

 

[Dreamer74]

I mean actually summoining the dudes.

 

[Canas]

This is a good thing overall, IMO. Balewind will probably be dropped immediately by the opponent most of the time (or take a starpriest and dispel it after putting it up to get a look out sir for the Slann/Kroak); same with the spell portal, but things like Geminids, which will probably be brought in most lists with wizards, will hit, do their 2d3 damage and apply debuffs to what you want them to, then get dispelled so you can recast. Pendulum will usually be left up, unless the units in its path can't be moved for some reason. Cogs can be placed outside of easy dispel range so you can keep it up.

Palisade is one of the weaker endless spells for us; the protection it offers from shooting isn't a huge deal with re-rolls to save from the slann, ignoring rend -1, and the new look out sir rule.

It's not a good thing, it makes certain endless spells virtually pointless, or in the best case a whole lot less "endless". A pallisade that can get dispelled before your opponent has even attempted to move or shoot is well, pointless. "But he sacrifices a spell-cast for it" you say. If your opponent has an army where his wizard's spells are important I'm sure he'l have more than 1 available cast & if he only has a wizard with him to deal with your endless spells nonsense it's not like he's sacrificing anything either.

I really don't get why they've increased the unbinding range to 30" and made dispelling endless spells this horrificly easy. Especially with how you can't realiably control endless spells.It shouldn't be too difficult to avoid the worst effects of the endless spells with good positioning, or by just sending it into your enemies lines or just into an empty space whenever you happen to get control over it.

Idiot question here but how does the summoning work is it as much as they want.

you generate points, there's table that says how much points certain things cost to summon. Provided you have the summoning points for it you can summon whatever you want

 

[Dreamer74]

Anytime you want in the Hero phase?

 

[Crowsfoot]

Anytime you want in the Hero phase?

Yeah in the hero phase, not casting spells will increase your pool of points

 

[Burwinkelito]

The summoning (placing the mini on the table) takes place in the movement phase, but correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[Ecozh]

End of the movement phase (see leaks in discussion section). So no summoning and moving sadly.

 

[Aginor]

Correct. You can neither move nor teleport summoned units in the turn they were summoned.

About the viability of the Endless Spells: some of them (like the Geminids or the Pendulum) are clearly a step up from the now pretty weak arcane bolt, having greater range and doing more damage.

And btw. I actually don't think it will be that easy for your opponent to move them somewhere harmless if you place them well.

 

[Aginor]

Ok new info (well, not actually. Just old info that I misunderstood it seems):

I just have been told and now realize that if there is only one predatory spell on the board _only_ the player going second in a round can move the predatory endless spell.

That's pretty huge as it means:
Go second if you want to get the most out of endless spell. Don't use the double turn of you get it. Your enemy can never move your spell, only dispell it.

If there is more than one spell on the board the second player moves the first one and the first player moves the next one, always alternating. A spell cannot be moved more than once in a round.

 

[Tokek]

It's not a good thing, it makes certain endless spells virtually pointless, or in the best case a whole lot less "endless". A pallisade that can get dispelled before your opponent has even attempted to move or shoot is well, pointless. "But he sacrifices a spell-cast for it" you say. If your opponent has an army where his wizard's spells are important I'm sure he'l have more than 1 available cast & if he only has a wizard with him to deal with your endless spells nonsense it's not like he's sacrificing anything either.

I think the dispelling thing might work out well enough on the table. Against something like the KO clown-car list for example the palisade is solid gold and a simple game-winner if they let you go first, whereas against an opponent who brought proper spellcasters it has a fairly high chance of getting dispelled on any given turn unless/until you can snipe the spellcaster. I think the points might be about right for something that is super-strong sometimes and a big meh the rest of the time. I do think that having only one endless spell might make things too easy for most opponents, if you have a couple it makes more problems for them and as they are neither expensive nor hard to summon in a Seraphon army. Threat overload applies here as much as anywhere.

 

[claymore36]

And doesn’t dispelling in your turn cost a spell cast? I may be wrong but if that’s the case your opponent will have to make a choice, give up a spell cast for that turn or allow you’d endless spell to remain.

 

[Aginor]

Correct.
Any wizard (but not non wizards using artefacts e abilities) within 30" of the spell can sacrifice a spell and try to dispell instead. They have to roll higher than the casting value on the warscroll.

 

[Canas]

And doesn’t dispelling in your turn cost a spell cast? I may be wrong but if that’s the case your opponent will have to make a choice, give up a spell cast for that turn or allow you’d endless spell to remain.

If your tactic depends on the wizards you'l most likely already be bringing multiple wizards at which point sacrificing 1 spell isn't going to be that big of a deal anymore. If your tactic doesn't rely on the wizard the "sacrifice" is even less significant. Especially considering the potentially massive pay-off the sacrifice is surprisingly insignificant. The only real sacrifice I'm seeing is that virtually any army is now going to field at least 1 wizard and put in significant effort to protect him in case the opponent starts spewing forth endless spells, so "non"-wizard armies will now be fielding 1 wizard effectivly resulting in a tax of ~100 points for those.

Minor sidenote; only wizards can dispell right? How does this work for certain armies like say Khorne who won't ever have any wizards? Is khorne just doomed to now take an allied wizard with him? Has Tzeentch finally tricked him into doing something like that?

 

[Aginor]

If your tactic depends on the wizards you'l most likely already be bringing multiple wizards at which point sacrificing 1 spell isn't going to be that big of a deal anymore. If your tactic doesn't rely on the wizard the "sacrifice" is even less significant. Especially considering the potentially massive pay-off the sacrifice is surprisingly insignificant. The only real sacrifice I'm seeing is that virtually any army is now going to field at least 1 wizard and put in significant effort to protect him in case the opponent starts spewing forth endless spells, so "non"-wizard armies will now be fielding 1 wizard effectivly resulting in a tax of ~100 points for those.

Minor sidenote; only wizards can dispell right? How does this work for certain armies like say Khorne who won't ever have any wizards? Is khorne just doomed to now take an allied wizard with him? Has Tzeentch finally tricked him into doing something like that?

That's how I read it. But then Khorne can use a slave to darkness wizard or so.

 

[Canas]

That's how I read it. But then Khorne can use a slave to darkness wizard or so.

wellI would not be pleased with that if I played khorne.. rather goes against the theme of the army

 

[Aginor]

wellI would not be pleased with that if I played khorne.. rather goes against the theme of the army

Yeah.
Same for Kharadron Overlords, they also lack wizards. I think there are a few more factions in the same position.

 

[Canas]

Yeah.
Same for Kharadron Overlords, they also lack wizards. I think there are a few more factions in the same position.

at least the Kharadron and those others can concievably ally. It's more the fluff that'd annoy me as a Khorne player than anything else.

 

[Asamu]

Minor sidenote; only wizards can dispell right? How does this work for certain armies like say Khorne who won't ever have any wizards? Is khorne just doomed to now take an allied wizard with him? Has Tzeentch finally tricked him into doing something like that?

Myrmourn banshees can dispel, and it was mentioned very early on that witch hunters would get a warscroll update so they can "hunt down" wild magic (endless spells) or some such. They'll probably be updating most or all of the warscrolls for non wizards that can unbind, so they can dispel endless spells.

 

[Canas]

Myrmourn banshees can dispel, and it was mentioned very early on that witch hunters would get a warscroll update so they can "hunt down" wild magic (endless spells) or some such. They'll probably be updating most or all of the warscrolls for non wizards that can unbind, so they can dispel endless spells.

If you put that on everything that can unbind then it seems like there'd be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many guys that could dispell endless spells. Hell, even the argument "but you sacrifice a spell/unbind"for it becomes moot at that point...

Though giving some of them that ability would work I guess.

 

[Asamu]

If you put that on everything that can unbind then it seems like there'd be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many guys that could dispell endless spells. Hell, even the argument "but you sacrifice a spell/unbind"for it becomes moot at that point...

Though giving some of them that ability would work I guess.

Why shouldn't every model that can unbind be able to dispel endless spells? Why shouldn't Khorne, Dispossessed, or Kharadron Overlords be able to get rid of them without bringing in an ally? I'd actually find it weirder for them not to be able to get rid of endless spells. Maybe it will be another "instead of". If runelords have to choose between dispelling the endless spell and giving a unit a 6+ invul save or +1 rend, there's a trade off. The same goes for Aetheric Navigators and Slaughterpriests. It's pretty much exactly the same as trading a spell to dispel.

Myrmourn banshees take mortal wounds when they successfully dispel an endless spell, which is a harsh trade for models that cost 20pts per wound despite the extra attacks they get from it, and the dispel only has a 6" range.