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Tutorial The art of Summoning

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by Killer Angel, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    @The17thYak is right.

    as explicitly stated by the rules for endless spells, when you buy (with points) an endless spell, each wizard in your army knows it, so with 2 ES, the Slann knows both of them, going to 5 spell known. Plus, the slann now knows also one additional spell from our lore, for a total (in this case) of 6 spell known.
    ad if you play in a realm (you should), you know also additional spell from that realm.

    Vortex and Cogs let you cast an extra spell. You gain 3 CCP by renouncing to a casting attemp, so you forego the extra attempts of casting and gain CCP for that. That's how the rules work.


    the only vaguely plausible objection would be "in matched play you cannot cast twice the same endless spell, so even if your Slann knows Vortex, that spell cannot be cast, so you cannot renounce to cast a spell you cannot cast"
    but rules don't work that way. You skip the attempt to cast a spell and accumulate CCP, so the spell wasn't even attempted. You don't have to declare what spell you forego… but you could forego each time "arcane bolt", cause a spell can be cast or attempted to cast only once, but you renounce to the attempt.

    Seriously, AoS got many unclear rules, but this one is not one of those
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
  2. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

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    Use the general trait to know the skink spells, tada another 6CCP.

    Seriously that'd be hilariously broken, you could easily setup something where you could summon entire armies eacht turn.

    There's 18 endless spells (total combined cost 870)
    There's the three basic spells every slann knows.
    There's a realm spell
    There's a lore spell
    There's the two skink spells

    That's 24! spells. That's 72 points per turn. And then there's still the points from the Astrolith & the default point you get for a slann being your general. You could summon a dread saurian each turn and still have points left to summon half entire army that turn. It'd be hilarious.
     
  3. Byte
    Saurus

    Byte Member

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    I think this point is the key of the question.
    If You need yo know a spell yo give Up calle It.
     
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  4. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Let's put it simple.

    1) your Slann knows 4 spells (the 3 basic listed in the warscroll, plus the one from seraphon lore) plus any Endless spells you've payed. Let's say Balewind vortex. So 5 spells known
    2) a Slann can normally cast 3 spells
    3) "A Wizard on a Balewind Vortex can attempt to cast an additional spell in each of their hero phase". The slann knows 5 spells and can attempt to cast four of them
    4) "In your hero phase before attempting to Cast a spell with a Slann general, you can say that it Will Carry out CP intead". A slann on vortex got 4 attempts. You can take CCP 4 times (12 CCP).
     
  5. Byte
    Saurus

    Byte Member

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    Almost good. Now I bind Cog spell. I have 5 attemps. The problem is that You can't attemp to bind BV or Cog again because both are activate.You can't bind 2 times the same endless spell. So,I just can attemp 4 spell, The 3 basics and Lore spell, although I have 5 attemps.
    What do you think?
     
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  6. Canas
    Slann

    Canas Ninth Spawning

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    All the summoning rule says is "before attempting a spell you can say you instead say you don't and generate summoning points instead". It says nothing about needing to know the spell, or even being able to succesfully cast the spell at all. Based on how it's written you could say your slann is going to give up an "attempt" to cast tzeentch's bolt of change in exchange for summoning points even if he would never actually be succesfull at that attempt.

    All that matters is the number of spellcasts that your slann has available, which with cog's and BV is 5.
     
  7. Byte
    Saurus

    Byte Member

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    After reading all your messages and after reading the magic rules more carefully, I think I've already found the solution.

    The basic rules of magic say the following: "In order to cast a spell, first say which spell the wizard is going to attempt to use (it must be one they know). To cast the spell, roll 2D6. If the total is equal to or greater than the casting value of the spell, the spell is successfully cast."

    The Seraphon invocation rules say the following: "In your hero phase, before attempting to cast a spell, you can say that it will carry out celestial conjuration points instead. If you do so, you receive 3 celestial conjuration points instead of being able to attemp to cast that spell."

    So, before you try to cast a spell, you don't have to say which spell you're going to cast. And after you win the CCPs, you spend an attempt to cast a spell for those CCPs. That's all.

    I think that's enough explanation.

    What do you think?
     
  8. Byte
    Saurus

    Byte Member

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    Another doubt, although this one is much easier than the previous ones. I even know the answer but just in case. :)

    Astrolith Bearer, his "Celestial Conduit" ability adds 1 to a magician's spell cast rolls. The question is: Does it add 1 to attempts to disperse a spell?
    I understand it doesn't. :-(
     
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  9. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Yep. As we said, you collect CCP because you renounce to the attempt. So, you don't even have to tell what would have been the spell.

    Sadly yes, you knew the right answer.
     
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  10. Lord Skal'terakk
    Chameleon Skink

    Lord Skal'terakk Well-Known Member

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    This tutorial is legendary. Thank you for your hard work Angel, it is amazing and really really helpful, especially for people who are just starting and don't completely get how seraphon play. Cheers!
     
  11. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Glad you liked it, it was the reason i made it. :)

    BTW, have you checked the tutorial about Seraphon in the GHB2019? ;)
     
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  12. ILKAIN
    Skink Chief

    ILKAIN Well-Known Member

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    DS can be summoned turn 2 if you manage to roll a 2 and a 3 on the D3 from the AB, have kroak dedicated CCP generation, starpriest summons cogs, kroak uses them and summons BWV on turn 1. but yeah... that's an investment.
     
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  13. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    well, yes. But it's still a very specific build, that requires a good amount of luck and no unbind from the opponent, and even in that case you are blocking for 2 turns an amount of points greater than the cost of the DS itself.
    But yeah, in theory we are able to summon a DS by turn 2. Impressive.
     
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  14. Byte
    Saurus

    Byte Member

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    Hello, everybody. Is that true that we cann´t summor Chameleon? Where did you get that FAQ?
     
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  15. Erta Wanderer
    OldBlood

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    no they can be summoned just not in ambush
     
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  16. BobbyHobby
    Skink

    BobbyHobby Member

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    Hey everyone, i have a basic question for the summoning. I‘m sorry if this was already asked but i did not find the answer.
    My question is, how far from the Slann can i summon units? Is it the 15“ range within the Slann, but 9“ away from enemy units? Or is it just the 9“ away from enemy units? Thanks dir helping me out
     
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  17. Erta Wanderer
    OldBlood

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    must be within 12" of either a slann or a astrolith bearer and 9" away from enemies. beyond that no max range
     
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  18. BobbyHobby
    Skink

    BobbyHobby Member

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    ok, thanks a lot. But what do you mean with „beyond That no max range“ ? As far as i understand it, is 12“ the Max range!?
     
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  19. Erta Wanderer
    OldBlood

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    if the slann is in one corner and the astrolith is 3 feet away you can still summon next to the astrolith the slann is the one summoning and this gives him a 4 foot range(to that one spot). often used by teleporting a astrolith behind enemy lines and droping 100 skinks
     
  20. BobbyHobby
    Skink

    BobbyHobby Member

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    Ahhh :) thanks for this helpful example.
     
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