8th Ed. The BEST close combat units in all of Warhammer.

[NIGHTBRINGER]

But in addition to whittling them down, a sane general is going to send a 1+ armour save unit up against them and they will do absolutely nothing to them.

And that's the game isn't it. Can you get your 1+ armour save unit into the Witch Elves before the DE general gets his Executioners into your 1+ armour save unit?

If I was a Dark Elf general, it would be a "Why not?" choice for my Core Tax. They are fast and can be very useful. Even if only as a distraction tactic.

They are a brilliant core unit. Immensely useful. Sure they can be countered, but so can everything else.

the run for the third place include Executioners, Witch Elves, Skullcrushers and Chaos Trolls. Only WE have already faced the mighty K'daai

Indeed and the Witch Elves actually managed to defeat the K'daai!

The Chaos Trolls have such a bad matchup against the K'daai. The Executioners will lose pretty easily as well. The Skullcrushers are the only ones that can at the very least make it close.



@Killer Angel 's line of thinking is correct. The key is who each of our competitors still have left to face. Some units have significantly more difficult matchups remaining than others.

 

[pendrake]

The worst has to be Gnoblars? Skaven slaves?

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

and I think that the Witch Elves will make their way past the Executioners for Number 3. The Witch Elves attack output is just too heavy in a straight up fight.

Speak of the devil and he shall appear. You must be a mind reader, because I had already worked out that matchup... Witch Elves vs. Har Ganeth Executioners!

Key rules in play:

• Witch Elves: ASF, Frenzy, Murderous Prowess, Poisoned Attacks
• Executioners: Murderous Prowess, ASF and ASL cancel each other out

Nothing unexpected here. Executioners are not designed to face units like the Witch Elves, while the Witch Elves are tailor made to bring down units like the Executioners. They say "styles make fights", and this matchup was always going to favour the Witches.



We see a four point swing between our two combatants. The Witch Elves gain two points to sit comfortably at 7 points total, while the Executioners drop two points and now find themselves with 4 points overall. The Witch Elves are currently tied for second with the Beasts of Nurgle (but the Beasts still have yet to fight this round). Can the Witch Elves stay on the podium by tourneys end? Who has the best chance to displace them?

 

[Imrahil]

well looking at the match-ups to come for the Withc Elves it looks mostly like a walk in the park:

- Arachnarok Spider
- Savage Orc Big'Uns
- Demigryph Knights

Not so sure about the Black Guards and Chaos Trolls though.

so the Witch Elves will not lose much points in the upcoming battles

Grrr, Imrahil

 

[Killer Angel]

We see a four point swing between our two combatants. The Witch Elves gain two points to sit comfortably at 7 points total, while the Executioners drop two points and now find themselves with 4 points overall. The Witch Elves are currently tied for second with the Beasts of Nurgle (but the Beasts still have yet to fight this round). Can the Witch Elves stay on the podium by tourneys end? Who has the best chance to displace them?

This pleases me. I was rooting for the skullcrushers, and Executioners are a direct rival...

 

[Lizards of Renown]

well looking at the match-ups to come for the Withc Elves it looks mostly like a walk in the park:

- Arachnarok Spider
- Savage Orc Big'Uns
- Demigryph Knights

Not so sure about the Black Guards and Chaos Trolls though.

so the Witch Elves will not lose much points in the upcoming battles

Grrr, Imrahil

I see them struggling in the Demigryph match-up. I believe they have a 1+ armour save so I predict them losing this.

 

[Imrahil]

I see them struggling in the Demigryph match-up. I believe they have a 1+ armour save so I predict them losing this.

Fair.

What do you think about the Choas Trolls and Black Guards?

Grrr, Imrahil

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Fair.

What do you think about the Choas Trolls and Black Guards?

Grrr, Imrahil

They'll win both of these. Purely due to the volume of their attacks. Regeneration is good, but it's still only 50 percent save rate. The Black Guard have a 5+ heavy armour save (as they have the additional hand weapon) so it will be worse for them (and Elf toughness of 3, whereas the Chaos Trolls have Toughness 4).

If they were River Trolls with a -1 to hit, it might be a close one.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

This pleases me. I was rooting for the skullcrushers, and Executioners are a direct rival...

Me too!

Fair.

What do you think about the Choas Trolls and Black Guards?

Grrr, Imrahil

I think the Witch Elves will break the trolls in one round of combat.


As for the Black Guard, I'm going to throw out a risky prediction and say that they will end up beating the Witch Elves.

I see them struggling in the Demigryph match-up. I believe they have a 1+ armour save so I predict them losing this.

Agreed. That 1+ armour save is the perfect counter against the Witch Elves. We've already seen them lose massively against big armour twice (Skullcrushers and Mournfang).

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Early in this round I got to exact a little revenge on those accursed Demigryph Knights. Don't think that I have forgotten about those pesky Dwarfs...

Chaos Trolls vs. Hammerers!


Key rules in play:

• Chaos Trolls: Regeneration
• Hammerers: ASL, Stubborn

Spoiler: I also ran a simulation with narrower frontage...

...but the Dwarfs only fare worse in the end.

Striking last really hurt the Hammerers. It's not often that the Trolls, with their initiative of 1, get to strike before their opponents. Defensively, the regeneration was huge, which helped negate the Hammerer's impressive S6 attacks. In the end, another unit pays the troll toll!



With the win the Trolls move into 4th place! They are still well placed to make a move at capturing a podium finish. Can they supplant the Witch Elves? ...can the Skullcrushers or Executioners move past them?

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Nobody is weighing in on the last match? Surely I thought @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl would have some Dwarven grumbling about the Chaos Trolls stomping his Hammerers.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Nobody is weighing in on the last match? Surely I thought @Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl would have some Dwarven grumbling about the Chaos Trolls stomping his Hammerers.

I would be if it wasn’t for the fact that Regeneration + Always Strikes Last was definitely going to make things hard for them. Though I’m obviously disappointed to see them lose so badly, when the odds are this clearly against them, I’m happy to lose gracefully. I’m much more annoyed about them losing badly to the whorey Witch Elves.

 

[Killer Angel]

Indeed.
On a second thought, hammerers are not that great as a stand alone unit: ASL isn't a thing you can afford in this kind of matches. The poor hammerers are paying a steep price for it.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I’m much more annoyed about them losing badly to the whorey Witch Elves.

No shame in losing to one of the leading contenders!

Indeed.
On a second thought, hammerers are not that great as a stand alone unit: ASL isn't a thing you can afford in this kind of matches. The poor hammerers are paying a steep price for it.

My thoughts exactly. If you contrast the Hammerers to the Executioners, we see a completely different success rate, one near the top of the tourney and the other near the bottom. They both have a 5+ armour save, strength 6 and a weapon skill of 5. The Hammerers have significant advantages in the form of T4, 2 attacks and being stubborn. In exchange, the Executioners have killing blow (which is utterly useless in the tournament) and a small boost from Murderous Prowess. However, the big difference is that the Hammerers strike last while the Executioners strike at an impressive initiative 5.

It will be interesting to see where they end up at tourney's end.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Match time. Next up are the Black Guard vs. the current leading contender for the sliver medal (and thus far the surprise stand out performer of the tourney) the Beasts of Nurgle.

Key rules in play:

• Black Guard: ASF, Murderous Prowess, Stubborn
• Beasts of Nurgle: Daemon of Nurgle, Poisoned Attacks, Random Attacks (D6+1), Regeneration

Once again the Beasts of Nurgle prove their worth. Their four-layered ultimate defense (-1 to hit, toughness, wounds, regeneration) is simply too much for the Black Guard. These Beasts are looking better and better all the time. Of their 10 matches thus far, they've only lost twice (with one being to the Banner of the World Dragon).



With their impressive win, the Beasts of Nurgle recapture sole possession of second place. With only five matches remaining, do you see anyone else being able to hand the Beasts a loss? Maybe the Demigryphs or the HPA? The other three opponents don't look to stand a chance.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Match time. Next up are the Black Guard vs. the current leading contender for the sliver medal (and thus far the surprise stand out performer of the tourney) the Beasts of Nurgle.

Key rules in play:

• Black Guard: ASF, Murderous Prowess, Stubborn
• Beasts of Nurgle: Daemon of Nurgle, Poisoned Attacks, Random Attacks (D6+1), Regeneration

View attachment 91048

Once again the Beasts of Nurgle prove their worth. Their four-layered ultimate defense (-1 to hit, toughness, wounds, regeneration) is simply too much for the Black Guard. These Beasts are looking better and better all the time. Of their 10 matches thus far, they've only lost twice (with one being to the Banner of the World Dragon).

View attachment 91049

With their impressive win, the Beasts of Nurgle recapture sole possession of second place. With only five matches remaining, do you see anyone else being able to hand the Beasts a loss? Maybe the Demigryphs or the HPA? The other three opponents don't look to stand a chance.

I think they're gonna have a hard time with both of those. They only have Strength 4, but I think they'll outlast the Demigryphs for a victory. I believe they will lose to the Hellpit, as they both have the Regen and I believe the HPA ends up with more attacks.... Actually I just realized that the HPA won't get it's Thunderstomp. Scratch that, I believe they will scrape a win against both of them.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

but I think they'll outlast the Demigryphs for a victory.

It will be interesting to see. The Skullcrushers were able to beat the Beasts, but the Mournfang were not. It will be a fun one.

In the meantime, the Beasts are sitting at a very impressive 9 points overall in the tourney.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Time for another quick matchup. Mournfang Cavalry vs. Arachnarok Spider!!

Key rules in play:

• Arachnarok Spider: Natural Armor (4+), Poisoned Attacks (Spider only), Stubborn, Venom Surge
• Mournfang Cavalry: Thick-skinned, Ironfists

It's the Arachnarok Spider... what did you expect? It's same failings seen in previous matches, fails it again. Auto-breaking really hurts the poor beastie, otherwise it would at least be a much closer contest as the Mournfang would lose effectiveness as their model count drops.

The Mournfang started our tournament winning only 1 of their first 6 matches. In their last 4 matches the Mournfang have managed to capture 3 wins, 2 of which were massive ones!



The Mournfang now find themselves at -3 points overall, just 1 point out of a joint tie for 9th place! Do you think they can make up ground by tourney's end, or will they fall back down the rankings (or stay where they are)?

The Arachnarok continues its losing ways. It also continues to oppositely mirror the Destroyer (14 points vs. -14 points). Will the Arachnarok finish with a great negative number of points than the Destroyer's positive point tally? (ie. who will have the greater "absolute value" of points)

 

[Killer Angel]

The Arachnarok continues its losing ways. It also continues to oppositely mirror the Destroyer (14 points vs. -14 points). Will the Arachnarok finish with a great negative number of points than the Destroyer's positive point tally? (ie. who will have the greater "absolute value" of points)

I don't think the arachnarok stands a chance in any of the remaining battles

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I don't think the arachnarok stands a chance in any of the remaining battles

I think you are right. The question is, will it take 5 straight Massive Losses? The K'daai is unlikely to get straight Massive Victories in its remaining 5 fights.