8th Ed. The Best Monstrous Infantry unit in all of Warhammer

I was rather busy yesterday and didn't get time to post another battle, but today I shall amend that with impunity!

Next up as we progress through the rankings, the Bile Trolls and Ogre Bulls have already fought this round and the Tree Kin have already fought and soundly beaten the Minotaurs, so their next opponent is the Ironguts!

Key Rules in Play:
Tree Kin: Scaly Skin (4+), Forest Spirit (6+ Ward Save)
Ironguts: Great Weapons, Standard of Discipline (+1 Leadership)



And the Ogre Kingdoms claim another big win, yet the matchup between these two units couldn't have been closer - it all came down to the Ironguts being able to bring a Musician and Standard Bearer to the battle to be able to swing the combat into their favour, despite the Tree Kin being able to strike first and inflict more wounds overall, and though the Wood Elf Dreadnoughts' above average Leadership kept them in the fight after Round 1, they couldn't suffer a second similar affront to their Elven pride, allowing the Ironguts to squeak in their first Massive Victory in the tourney!



This triumph raises the Ironguts up into positive figures, while the Tree Kin fall to fourth last place on -4 points, below even the flagging Kroxigors but above the unfortunate Ushabti, Rat Ogres and Chaos Ogres.


Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!

 

Guess what? Because I neglected this contest yesterday, I'll give you another bout to enjoy!

Next, two forgotten but fearsome creations of Chaos go bonce-to-bonce to see which is more worthy of regaining the attentions of the Chaos Gods. The Minotaurs are fighting the Fimir Warriors!

Key Rules in Play:
Minotaurs: Additional Hand Weapons, Bloodgreed
Fimir Warriors: Scaly Skin (6+), Heavy Armour, Always Strikes Last (Great Weapons), Cold Blooded, From the Mists, Tail Attack (S5)

As always with the Fimir I shall resolve this bout first with the one-eyed amphibians at their strongest, with the mists of their island home covering their approach:


And as with some of their other foes the Fimir are able to take full advantage of the Minotaurs' inability to see red to hit them harder with their Great Weapons, so that the average Leadership of the bull-men once again plays against them, as it has with many Monstrous Infantry units in this contest.

However, there is no guarantee that the Fimir can bring their protective fog with them onto the battlefield - let's see how well they do without it:


As with the Kroxigors, without the mists the results are quite different, with the Minotaurs being able to kill one of the Fimir before they even get to fight, reducing their return damage enough to win the combat thanks to their Musician, and allowing the Bloodgreed to take them - indeed because they only lost one model in the first round, this great special rule actually allowed them to attack with one extra strike in the second, dealing enough damage to outright win the combat without their drum-beating comrade, though the Cold-Blooded nature of the Fimir means they stayed for one more round before they realised their cause was hopeless, the survivor retreating with a trio of raging bulls hot in pursuit. Unfortunately for the Minotaurs, their high points value once again results in them only being able to win a Minor Victory, which means that, balanced out against the Major Victory when the mists are in play, the Fimir still walk away with a Minor Victory themselves - otherwise it would have been a solid draw!


This means the Minotaurs join the Kroxigors on -3 points apiece, while the Fimir inch their way up the table to join the Skin Wolves and the Fenbeasts on 0, though these combatants have yet to fight so it's likely the Fimir will hold the 0 spot alone by the end of this round.


Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!

 

The poor minotaurs- losing to the fimir. At least they avoided a massive loss.

 

I think it's realistic that the Fimir wouldn't get off their bound spell.

Or if they did, the opposing player would surely dispel the tiny casting cost in his offensive phase anyways.

 

After so many well-reasoned arguments regarding the Fimir and additional consideration on my part, I shall discount the bouts involving 'From the Mists' from now on. You are right in that it does count as an external factor, and Bound Spells are less of a convenience in 8th as you have to expend power dice to cast them as per normal spells (a definite downgrade from 7th that makes little sense in the background, as surely magic bound in objects would happen automatically when the object is used?), and the opponent is often able to dispel them easily due to the low casting value.

Fortunately this decision has been made pretty early on in the tourney, and thus only two matches are affected - where the Fimir win against both the Minotaurs and Kroxigors with the spell, they lose without it. Thus these two units both gain two points to take account of these updated results, and the Fimir lose four.

Now, onto the main event, time for another battle! This time it's a whiffy affair, as arguably the two worst-smelling units duke it out. It's time for the Fenbeasts to fight the River Trolls!

Key Rules in Play:
Fenbeasts: Always Strikes Last, Frenzy (through Born of Bloodmarsh), Regeneration (4+), Unbreakable, Unstable
River Trolls: Regeneration (4+), River Troll, Troll Vomit



This was always going to be tough for the Fenbeasts, up against a unit with similarly strong regenerative qualities, far greater numbers and without Always Strikes Last (a real killer for the Fenbeasts, as otherwise they would have fought first due to superior Initiative). The River Trolls' ability to inflict a -1 penalty to to Hit rolls only made matters worse, preventing the Fenbeasts from killing a single River Troll in the first round of combat and allowing their opponents to claim a point of rank bonus as well as an additional wound, thus finishing off one of the swamp-creatures with Instability. The inevitable downward spiral from this results in the Fenbeasts being wiped out entirely with only a single River Troll dead, a Major Victory if I ever saw one!



This sees the Fenbeasts get knocked back down into the red with -2 points, while the River Trolls rise to join the Ironguts at 1 point apiece. With the altered Fimir combats the one-eyed amphibians fall to join the Tree Kin at -4, while the Minotaurs and Kroxigors are both elevated to the top of the red rankings at -1 point each.


Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!

 

The River Trolls are moving up. I expect them to place fairly well by tournament's end. Their score was only so low because they faced (and consequently lost to) two of the tournament's top seeds.

 

They're certainly the best Monstrous Infantry unit that the Greenskins have to offer - all the benefits of standard Trolls, an affordable points cost plus what is pretty much Mark of Nurgle makes them formidable foes in this contest. I suppose I could have included standard Trolls in this tourney as well, but given Chaos Trolls are pretty much the same thing but can take additional hand weapons I didn't bother. Stone Trolls are another variant that have their uses in a full-on battle, but would be far inferior in this particular tourney, as the additional rules they pay for (a 5+ armour save and Magic Resistance 1) are either reduced to nearly nothing by Armour Piercing or have no effect in close combat bouts.

Anyway, time for another round! Next up, it's time to revisit that classic matchup of Werewolves vs Vampires (and I'm not referring to Twit Light), bring on the Skin Wolves and the Vargheists!

Key Rules in Play:
Vargheists: Frenzy, Unbreakable, Unstable
Skin Wolves: Always Strikes First (from Mark of Slaanesh), Regeneration (5+), Frenzy



And it's a bloodbath victory for Team Werewolf, as Always Strikes First enables them to tear through two Vargheists before the oversized Vampire Bats could even fight, and though they put up a fearsome fight in return, the Skin Wolves' regenerative capabilities allow them to endure the worst of the Vargheists' return assault. Their solid winning score of 4 then knocks four more wounds off the Vargheists thanks to Instability, before another round of wolf bites leaves just a single one alive, which finishes off another Skin Wolf before dying of sadness at its crushing defeat.




At least this time anyway - the Skin Wolves have had a bit of a rough time of it in their battles against the Crypt Horrors and the K'daai, but beating this softer target has brought them back into positive figures at 2 points, raising them above the Vargheists who now drop to just +1 point.


Next up (as I missed a day yesterday), two combatants of a more durable nature size each other up - the Crypt Horrors take on the Chaos Trolls!

Key Rules in Play:
Crypt Horrors: Poisoned Attacks, Regeneration (5+), Unbreakable, Unstable
Chaos Trolls: Extra Hand Weapons, Regeneration (4+), Troll Vomit



And while the previous round was a swift, brutal cull, this one was a long, painful slug-out for both sides, but ultimately the superior Regenerative capabilities and greater number of attacks of the Chaos Trolls was able to grind down the equally-large starting number of Crypt Horrors, with a little help from Instability towards the end. The Ghouls' poisoned claws did still inflict a bloody toll on the Trolls such that they ended up with just a quarter of their starting number of Wounds, but this was not enough to stop them walking away with a hard-earned Victory.



That result sees the Chaos Trolls push onwards and upwards to 9 points, but because they had a Major Victory taken from them by the Crypt Horrors, they could end up knocked down below the K'daai and the Maneaters, both of whom are fully capable of winning Major Victories themselves as we have already seen.


Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!

 

Don't forget that when a frenzied unit loses a round of combat they lose Frenzy (and hence their bonus attack). I don't think you have accounted for that in the last matches featuring the Vargheists and Fenbeasts (not sure if this has occurred elsewhere in the tournament). It doesn't shift the results in these two instances, but it might one day in a different matchup.

 

Hard fought! This bodes very well for the hopes of the Chaos Trolls finishing in the top three.

 

That is very true, thanks for reminding me, I have altered the results for those two matches.

Woe betide me if I make the same mistake again... my Questing Knighthood in the Order of Fantasy could be revoked

 

Roll up, roll up, time once again to witness two units of Monstrous Infantry beating the crap out of each other! Today, a wall of fire meets a wall of fat, as the Maneaters take on the K'daai Fireborn!

Key Rules in Play:
Maneaters: Poisoned Attacks, Stubborn (both from Been There, Done That), Additional Hand Weapons, War Banner (+1 Combat Res)
K'daai Fireborn: Blazing Body, Bound Fire Daemon, Flaming Attacks, Unbreakable, Unstable



As perhaps is not too surprising in this contest, the Maneaters are left burnt, battered and broken after two painful rounds, the last two of whom head off back to wherever they came from on their travels. The K'daai having superior Initiative didn't help matters, as the Maneaters had to experience two of their number being cooked before the unit could even fight, which, alongside Bound Fire Daemon and the 4+ Ward Save of the Fireborn, blunted the Ogres' return assault. Though their Stubbornness kept them in the fight for one round, their barely above-average Leadership of 8 meant probability stopped them from staying a second round. I can tell @Lizards of Renown will have mixed feelings about this fight - his new-found love for the Dawi-Zharr giving him support for the Fireborn but I don't expect he'll be too happy at seeing his beloved Ogres royally torched.

Time to update the scores:


This, the penultimate fight of Round 5, sees the K'daai Fireborn go stomping on with an unmatched maximum score of 10 points, while the Maneaters drop to 6 points but still remain at a very respectable 3rd place. Given it's highly likely the Fireborn will win every match, you could effectively say they occupy their own Fireborn Tier way above the other entrants and count actual places starting with the highest-placed unit below them , in which case the Maneaters would be 2nd, below the Chaos Trolls but above everyone else.

You'll notice that one unit, the Yhetees, hasn't had their Round 5 match yet, but as I have an odd number of entrants, this means they will be fighting against the first unit to have a Round 6 match, and will then have their own Round 6 match later on.


Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!

 

I think you may have made a mistake on the Maneater's To Wound value for their regular attacks. S5 vs. T4 (rerolling successful wounds) = 2/3*2/3 = 0.44


I think this settles the tournament winner. At a quick surface level glance, the Maneater's seemed like the only ones that had a chance to challenge the Fireborn. The Fireborn seem uniquely well equipped to take on other Monstrous Infantry. Also, this gives us a bit of insight into the overall effectiveness of most Monstrous Infantry units, as the Fireborn's performance against the Best Close Combat units lineup was mediocre:

 

You are correct, thanks. I've corrected that.

 

@NIGHTBRINGER I just checked the rules, the K'daai get a -1 to wound not re-roll successful wounds.

Am I missing something?

 

It was changed in the Errata. The problem with -1 to wound was that it made Destroyers unwoundable by S4 or less.

 

Oh snap.

Where do I get the errata from?

 

The internet provides!

 

Awesome!

 

Right, time for the last brawl of Round 5 and the first one of Round 6, simultaneously! Once again @Lizards of Renown will be spoilt for choice as to which unit to root for, because two Ogre Kingdoms units will once again be duking it out! The Yhetees are fighting the Ironguts! Will ice-cold claws tear the Ogre elite limb-from-limb, or will Mashed Yhetee be the dish of the day?

Key Rules in Play:
Yhetees: Aura of Frost
Ironguts: Great Weapons, Standard of Discipline (+1 Leadership)



As if I even need to ask that question! The Yhetees' Aura of Frost once again proves influential, as it reduces the Ironguts' Weapon Skill to 2 and allows the Yhetees to hit them on 3s, giving them them ability to tear three whole Ironguts to shreds before the rest can even lift their Great Weapons. Two Yhetees are pulverised in return, but even the Ironguts' Standard of Discipline isn't enough to keep them in the fray, and a minor earthquake is caused by the rest rushing back to their tribe's encampment.



This win sees the Yhetees finish Round 5 in joint Third Place with the Maneaters on 6 points each, while the Ironguts' run of bad luck continues into Round 6 with them dropping into negative figures, joining the Minotaurs and Kroxigors at -1 point.


Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!

 

It's been a fair while, hasn't it? But you're not going to get away from me that easily (even with the lack of discussion ), for I've got another round for you all! The Rat Ogres have been struggling of late after being sent in to fight some of the stronger units in the tourney, so let's pitch them against an easier target - the Ogre Bulls will do nicely!

Key Rules in Play:
Ogre Bulls: Additional Hand Weapons, Standard Bearer
Rat Ogres: Frenzy, Beast Pack



And the Rat Ogres couldn't even win here - despite the patchwork Clan Moulder creations inflicting one additional wound on the Bulls, they failed to do enough to stop the Ogres from claiming an additional rank, which worked with their Standard to swing the course of the combat into their favour, leaving the Rat Ogres' terrible Leadership to do the rest.



This devastating Major Loss knocks the Rat Ogres even further down the table so that they are perilously close to the Chaos Ogres on -8 points. The Ogre Bulls on the other hand, redeemed by this big win, rise up out of the red to sit at a nice round 0 points.


But we're not finished yet, for I thought I'd grant you one additional round out of the goodness of my heart (and because I didn't have time to do one yesterday ). Now, let us see who wins out of two units currently with the same score - the Ushabti VS the Tree Kin!

Key Rules in Play:
Ushabti: Great Weapons, 5+ Armour Save, Unbreakable, Unstable
Tree Kin: Scaly Skin (4+), Forest Spirit (6+ Ward Save)



And it's a surprise win for the Tomb Kings! Despite striking last with fewer attacks, the stone statues' Great Weapons give them just the right Strength to carve through the bark armour of the Tree Kin and manage to match the number of wounds that the Wood Elf Dreadnoughts inflict, and as per the previous fight, it comes down to one unit having a Command Group and the other not being able to take one, as the Ushabti's Standard Bearer wins them the combat and stops them losing additional wounds to Unstable. Though the Tree Kin stay for an extra round thanks to their higher than average Leadership, that same Leadership value isn't enough to stop them running after a second similar loss, giving the Ushabti their first Major Victory of the tourney!

Time once again to update the scoreboard:

That surprise turn of events sees the Ushabti salvage some of their currently poor track record by rising to -3 points, while the Tree Kin, despite their great initial success, continue to fall to third last with a poor score of -6 points.


Thoughts? Concerns? Discussion!!!