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AoS The losing warscrolls of the new tome?

Discussion in 'Seraphon Tactics' started by Scurvydog, Mar 11, 2020.

  1. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Thunder lizard bastiladon is probably the only viable build.
     
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  2. WizardinWinter
    Skink

    WizardinWinter Member

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    Don't discount range. Like I said, first turn, charge up your basties and unload. 29" threat right out of the gate, and a pile of heavy wounds on the first turn is rough. while it's up there, it still blocks charge lanes, behemoth base+ 3" in all directions. More importantly, ranged damage is free damage, the more resources you take away from your opponent, the less he has to strike you back with.

    Bastilidons may not be the hammer unit, but if you can peel off a unit of heavy infantry or a few bases of bloodcrushers before the actual combat begins, your knights and warriors will love you.

    I'm going to be experimenting with a pair of these in my firelance list, I'll be happy to report back how good/bad they end up being
     
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  3. Carnikang
    Carnasaur

    Carnikang Well-Known Member

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    Thunderquake? Thunderlizard does allow it to shoot twice, but toying with the idea of using an Ark Basti as an anvil to occupy something (Thunderquake Starhost, so innately healing a little) while hitting other units. Might need some Lifeswarm and other healing like an EotG, but I think it has merit as such.
     
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  4. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    The problem with basties is that they want CP to deal any decent damage (Herald of the Old ones + Trove of the Old On'es Technology+Hand of Glory/Burning Head). If you have 2 of them, you want 4 CP dedicated to them every turn. The range is really good, however, especially in TQTH, so, maybe, they will be good character snipers?
     
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  5. Acehilator
    Ripperdactil

    Acehilator Well-Known Member

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    And that's the problem. If you feed those 4 CP into something more powerful, you just remove huge chunks of your opponent's army. Who cares if some support characters are still alive ;)

    Not hating on Basti, love the model, but it's just a case for beer & pretzels games. In those it will still be pretty awesome.
     
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  6. Scurvydog
    Saurus

    Scurvydog Active Member

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    After giving this another go I tend to agree, I did not put it in the original list because of how different it is now and my limited experience with it, but it just has no real redeeming qualities to justify the cost.

    The cost being exactly the same as a Slann is way out there, Slann generating CP in a CP hungry army is so important, while also having 3 spell casts. The Troglodon could have had a place if it was either cheaper or stronger. I would like to have had it stronger really, to give a wizard option for an aggressive fast moving list.

    Right now though it has pitiful damage, by far the worst monster in the game. Spit should be at least just 3 attacks flat, no random shots. Jaws should have double the damage. The MW rule should be to deal x weapon dmg and end sequence, so jawz hits on 6 would be 4 MW for example.

    In melee right now as coalesced even with +1 jaw attack, the average damage of a Troglodon against a 4+ save is 3 damage, that is the same as a 5 man liberator unit... Obviously it should not out damage the oldblood on carno, as it is a regenerating wizard with +1 cast and boardwide unbinds, but it needs something to set it apart from either the carno or slann.
     
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  7. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    Poor trog. Was it even a single point in history of fb or aos when we was worth taking?
     
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  8. LizardWizard
    OldBlood

    LizardWizard Grand Skink Handler Staff Member

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    Loser of the New Battletome According to LizardWizard:
    • Eternity Warden
    • Ark of Sotek
    • Engine of the Gods
    • Chameleon Skinks
    • Saurus Guard
    • Troglodon (due to point cost)
    On a more positive note

    Winners:
    • SALAMANDERS
    • Lord Kroak
    • Terradons
    • Starseer
    • Kroxigor
     
  9. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Chameleon skinks could see some use in a coalesced army (especially shadowstrike, as you only need 1 unit of buffed skinks), just because the mobility granted by chama gives some small board control to a sub-faction that doesn't have LoSaT or deep strikes.
    But it's not a buff received by the unit… it's more a weakness of a sub-faction, which the ability of said unit happens to mitigate somehow.
     
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  10. WizardinWinter
    Skink

    WizardinWinter Member

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    Me, any time lizardwizard celebrates a previously unpopular unit:
    - squints eyes
    - runs a math hammer
    "Well damn..."
    Coalesced gave kroxies some literal bite
     
  11. Scurvydog
    Saurus

    Scurvydog Active Member

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    Yes people talk about all other stuff and synergies and CP spending etc. Kroxigors want to be near any skink keyword unit sure, but if they are, they can dish out damage way above their point cost. I like them in thunderquakes too now, as they benefit a lot from both run/charge and from +1 attack to both mauls and bites. As coalesced they have 5 attacks with mauls and 3 bites, brining their damage average to the same as a 4 man ironguts unit (already one of the highest damaging units per point in game).

    Doubt I'd take their moonhammer anymore though, you need to face some real hordes on a regular basis as it no longer hits any harder than a maul which already got 4-5 attacks.
     
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  12. Lizerd
    Skink Priest

    Lizerd Well-Known Member

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    One thing to think about with kroxigors, they could be a really solid counter to ogors. They don’t cost much more and are notably more durable then them.

    as for saurus guard, one image can summarize them pretty well
    upload_2020-3-22_9-22-55.png
     
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  13. Scurvydog
    Saurus

    Scurvydog Active Member

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    Well they are 5 for 100, still head and shoulders above liberators ;) Warriors in large units will bring more offensive power for the cost no doubt, although both units are on 32mm bases with 1" reach. The saurus guards should at least have had 2" reach on those polearms... Anyway, as coalesced they got 2 polearm attacks and 2 bites regardless of model count and they are still battleine. I will still use them along with a Slann to protect it.

    If only they had that reach, or the warden was a bit better with at least some passive bonus to the guards, then they could easily have been a winner, now they are just ok, but outdone in a min/max setting. Still playable and better than what some lower tier armies got (yes I also play warrior chamber stormcast with the worst battleline in the game).
     
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  14. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    Wait, are there any units which are not?
     
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