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AoS The new Battletome: A Discussion

Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by sigmonstar, Mar 2, 2020.

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Are you optimistic about our new battletome?

  1. Yes

    159 vote(s)
    76.1%
  2. No

    20 vote(s)
    9.6%
  3. Undecided

    30 vote(s)
    14.4%
  1. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    I've got it now, thank you! Holy Stegadon, bastis are good!

    But don't trust those who yell, that this is OP. If an army can dish 2 MW a turn, Basti won't be a problem.
     
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  2. Galen
    Saurus

    Galen Active Member

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    Sorry to burst everyone's bubble on the whole "Bastiladons are immune to Rend at full wounds" but this exact rules interaction has already come up and GW quickly removed it. When Codex: Orks came out in 40K, there was a stratagem called Loot it!

    Savvy Ork players quickly realised that if they used this on a unit with a 2+ save, such as Meganobz, they gained a 1+ save, and suddenly became immune to AP due to a rules quirk. The first errata for Codex: Orks quickly removed the capacity to do this:

    Since AP and Rend work exactly the same between 40K and AoS, there's no reason to assume this is anything other than a similar oversight. I would absolutely expect this to be FAQed.
     
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  3. VVolfsong
    Skink

    VVolfsong Active Member

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    That's always a possibility, and if so it will likely be short lived as you say.

    But we are talking about a model that is supposed to be tanky and actually was immune to rend less than a week ago, so I wouldn't say there's no chance that this is working as intended either.
     
  4. Slannmann
    Skink

    Slannmann Member

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    This - I think it will be left alone, since it is supposed to be a tanky unit, and it doesn't stay at a 1+ save for long. There is almost no way that the 1+ was intended to be a 2+ with rend reduction, since GW knows how to do rend immunity (see our old war scrolls). Clearly, GW intends the Bastiladon to start really tanky, then soften up once a few wounds are taken.

    If it was also putting out Mawcrusha or Zombie dragon levels of damage, then there would be a problem. However, at 220 points, it has OK damage output at range, is poor in combat, has good survivability against regular wounds, and is susceptible to MW. Sounds balanced to me.

    The 40k rules do work slightly differently - most AoS modifiers are clearly applied to rolls rather than the base value (except attack modifiers, or changes to equipment such as skink shields). There have been several units capable of achieving 2++ invuln saves in 40k, which is not less ridiculous...
     
  5. Slannmann
    Skink

    Slannmann Member

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    And we would face similar trouble if our other abilities modified the save value. Instead, they alter the save rolls, which ends up having a different effect. You refer to a case where the stratagem modifies the actual save value, which had unintended effects and was FAQd, rather than an intentional buff at full health to one unit.
     
  6. Jason839
    Ripperdactil

    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    Lots of people analyzing stats in a vacuum and getting upset. Don’t be we are super strong now. We are back to the super synergistic Buff Lizardmen days. We take decent units and throw 3-4 buffs on them and then decimate all. Almost all our units have the ability to do mortal wounds on 6s and you can get 80-120 attacks out of some units. Like skinks? You can take a block of 40, stack buffs and they average out 20 mortal wounds a turn. That is really strong. It just takes planning and dedication in your list building. Everything is good now! You just need to use your synergistic buffs.
     
  7. Tim smith
    Jungle Swarm

    Tim smith New Member

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    I don’t understand why people are saying we can only get max 3d3 summoning points a turn. The exact wording says “in your hero phase, before attempting to cast the first spell with EACH friendly Slann or oracle, you can say that it will carry out a celestial conjuration. If you do so, receive D3 celestial points but the number of spells that model can cast is reduced by 1.”

    would that not mean if you ran Kroak, a Slann, and an Oracle on trog you could get 5d3 points?
     
  8. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    But why would you ever take them in one list together. It is 840 pts - almost half of your army. And this would be absolutely inefficient. The closest thing is Slann, Kroak and Astrolith for magic spam build.

    Otherwise you can take 5 slann and an astrolith and get 7d3 CCP every turn, but this will be the whole army.
     
  9. sigmonstar
    Saurus

    sigmonstar Active Member

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    Yes, this is correct. which is why i put together a list with kroak, two slaan, two oracles, and an astrolith for maximum magic fuckery.
    i flilled out with skinks and the usual endless spells (bound and unbound versions depending)
     
  10. sigmonstar
    Saurus

    sigmonstar Active Member

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    because sometimes weird and niche lists can be fun to play, especially in a casual setting.
     
  11. Primevalivy
    Jungle Swarm

    Primevalivy New Member

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    I heard somewhere that the skink Oracle didn’t get another spell, just the shield, bolt, and comet but I assume that would be expressly noted.

    Does anyone know if I heard correctly or am I just off base?
     
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  12. Erta Wanderer
    Skar-Veteran

    Erta Wanderer Well-Known Member

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    wizard allways get a lore spell
     
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  13. sigmonstar
    Saurus

    sigmonstar Active Member

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    all skink wizards should have access to the lore of celestial manipulation (skink spell lore), so the oracle should have another spell from that list.\
     
  14. Primevalivy
    Jungle Swarm

    Primevalivy New Member

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    I thought that was the case but someone was adamant about it so I wanted an outside opinion. Much obliged.
     
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  15. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    What i like is that finally the Command Traits let us make actual choices.
    No more summoning Slann with double teleport.
    CHOICES!!!

    A Slann that can reroll a roll to cast / dispel is always welcome
    Wanna go melee with a buffed saurus hero with a blade of reality? Let's reroll 1s.

    But the skinks are IMO the winners.
    Not a wizard? Use for free the command ability of the Skink priest.
    Or my favourite: just add 1 to saves and move.
    Both are excellent on a stegadon chief or on a EotG... with the second one, to reach save 2+ for your behemoth General will be trivial.
     
  16. Nart
    Carnasaur

    Nart Well-Known Member

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    Master of Star rituals on Stegadon Chief is basically +1 to-hit on all weapons, including mount, which can be use on another unit. But, I feel, defensive buffs is still superior on Chief.
     
  17. Killer Angel
    Slann

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Just read the artefacts.

    The ones for saurus heroes are kinda meh.

    For a Slann, ixti grubs are excellent, basically giving him the effects of a command trait, but better.

    But the winners, once again, are the skinks.
    When the hero is killed, roll a dice: 1-3 it dies, on a 4-6 all the wounds are healed and wounds still not assigned are negated.
    If you have a Troglodon or EotG, this is a must have.
     
  18. Carnikang
    Stegadon

    Carnikang Well-Known Member

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    Question. Can we agree to refer to Itxi Grubs as Itxi Tendies from now on? It's fitting....

    Also, yeah, Skinks won out on Artefacts. I honestly wish Sauras and Skinks could share theirs with one another.
     
  19. Acehilator
    Kroxigor

    Acehilator Well-Known Member

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    Effects that activate on a 4+ are bad, plain and simple.

    So for EotG, either Stegadon Helm or Feather Cloak, weighing offense vs defense.
     
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  20. Primevalivy
    Jungle Swarm

    Primevalivy New Member

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    I like the plus to save helm that stacks with the plus to save trait. 2+ save on a trog that can mystic shield itself.

    or the thermal rider griff charm combo item.
     
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