Is he? His 'pinned down' rule IMO makes him pretty clearly a horde killing monster. His multiple 5 damage rend 1 attacks I think further reinforces that. That's not the same role as a "400 point elite killing beatstick." Again, i'll ask - is he though? The general implication here seems to be that a beatstick monster has to be a 400 point elite killing beatstick monster or it isn't worth it. Where is that assertion coming from? You don't need to fight their monsters with your monsters. It simply doesnt need to happen. And shockingly, Carnosaurs actually can do decent damage into 3+ saves if you get Roar off. The problem I keep hearing is that this monster doesn't match your perception of what it SHOULD do. In a world with 400 point elite killing beatstick monsters, a 200 point horde killing beatstick monster is still worth it and fills a different but equally important role. Why should the rules change to match your perception and not your perception change to match the rules? A carnosaur is clearly not a monster hunter, nor does he need to be. Every beatstick monster doesnt need to be a copy paste of the mawkrusha. There's room in this game for monsters that are "worth it" at 200 points and ones that are at 400 or even 700. I get it, everyone wants their toys to be stronger, faster, and better than everyone elses toys. Who doesnt? But lets not let our natural bias and wishlisting tendencies get in the way of the facts of the game right in front of us. Carnosaurs can fill a useful role without being a mawkrusha. Also, i'll go back to my previous post of that kind of addition to the seraphon book would fundamentally change what they are as an army. Other armies like that already exist. You can play them if it's a playstyle you like or want to try out. Changing seraphon to be that army would majorly suck for everyone that likes the current playstyle, don't you think? Edit: to bring this more on topic I'd love to see carnosaurs be more of a power multiplier for saurus based armies. I think you can do that within the flavor and theme of the seraphon playstyle. I'm not totally sure if just buffing all its raw stats is necessarily the way I'd go! Just my two cents.