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8th Ed. Thinking about a second army

Morglum
Skaven Slave

Morglum

Clan Skryre
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So i'm thinking to start a second army. I got lizzies of course but their 8th edition book is so bad, it starts to suck the fun out of the game.

After weighing my personal interests out, i come across dwarfs for the following reasons:

- no army without an 8th edition book (no bretts, skaven, beastmen).

- a few friends already play O&G

- no elves, never liked any of the 3 armies

- friend already plays WoC en OK

- VC isn't my thing and from the info i got TKs isn't much fun.

- no empire, don't like to play humies in a fantasy setting.

So that leaves daemons of chaos and dwarfs...

I'm leaning more towards dwarfs, because they got good shooting (something lizzies lack). From what i know from previous editions is that they don't really have magic, but are good at dispelling and anti magic.

How is there 8th edition army book? Lots of flaws and contradictions? Or is it pretty straight forward?
 
Pieter Smeyers said:
I got lizzies of course but their 8th edition book is so bad
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They're typically considered to be a well balanced army solidly in middle tier. They have some exceptionally powerful options as well as a few real duds.

Pieter Smeyers said:
and from the info i got TKs isn't much fun.
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TK are in the bottom 3 in terms of power level. They can be fun in a challenging way, but also very restrictive at the same time. Unless you absolutely love the models or like an extreme challenge, it's probably best to stay away from them.

Pieter Smeyers said:
So that leaves daemons of chaos and dwarfs...
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Pieter Smeyers said:
I'm leaning more towards dwarfs, because they got good shooting (something lizzies lack). From what i know from previous editions is that they don't really have magic, but are good at dispelling and anti magic.
Click to expand...

And Chaos Dwarfs (Legion of Azgorh)!

!.gif !2.gif

Of course Chaos Dwarfs are probably the most expensive army you could choose to collect and Forge World did just recently discontinue their model line. They have some exceptional shooting, although not quite to the level of ordinary Dwarfs, but they make up for it with Monsters and magic! I love them, but I'll be the first to admit that they are somewhat of a niche army.

Pieter Smeyers said:
How is there 8th edition army book? Lots of flaws and contradictions? Or is it pretty straight forward?
Click to expand...
@Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl is our resident Dwarf expert, so he'll be able to share some useful insights into the army.

In my opinion the Dwarfs have a very solid army book. I'd rate them as more powerful than Lizardmen, but not top tier like WoC, HE, DE or Skaven. They have a very nice model range, but are completely limited to infantry, warmachines and a couple of flyers (gyrocopters and gyrobombers).

In my opinion they pretty much concede two phases of the game: magic and movement, but do exceptionally well in terms of close combat and shooting (the best shooting army in all of WFB). Additionally, they can counter magic with great magic defense and counter movement by forcing the enemy to close the distance or be shot to pieces. As such, they are well suited for people who prefer a more defensive style of play. On the other hand, if you want to be the aggressor and move about the field, then they are not an ideal choice.

Pros:
  • solid army book
  • nice model range
  • coolest magic item system in the game (runic items are fantastic with near infinite customizability)
  • great shooting
Cons:
  • extremely limited in terms of unit types / model types (no cavalry or monsters or monstrous infantry or war beasts or chariots, etc.)
  • lack of a magic phase (my favourite phase of the game)
  • limited movement
  • a less interesting play style in my personal opinion


The biggest question is... what model range do you like? That's something that should play a very large role in your decision.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
They're typically considered to be a well balanced army solidly in middle tier. They have some exceptionally powerful options as well as a few real duds.


TK are in the bottom 3 in terms of power level. They can be fun in a challenging way, but also very restrictive at the same time. Unless you absolutely love the models or like an extreme challenge, it's probably best to stay away from them.




And Chaos Dwarfs (Legion of Azgorh)!

View attachment 88776 View attachment 88777

Of course Chaos Dwarfs are probably the most expensive army you could choose to collect and Forge World did just recently discontinue their model line. They have some exceptional shooting, although not quite to the level of ordinary Dwarfs, but they make up for it with Monsters and magic! I love them, but I'll be the first to admit that they are somewhat of a niche army.


@Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl is our resident Dwarf expert, so he'll be able to share some useful insights into the army.

In my opinion the Dwarfs have a very solid army book. I'd rate them as more powerful than Lizardmen, but not top tier like WoC, HE, DE or Skaven. They have a very nice model range, but are completely limited to infantry, warmachines and a couple of flyers (gyrocopters and gyrobombers).

In my opinion they pretty much concede two phases of the game: magic and movement, but do exceptionally well in terms of close combat and shooting (the best shooting army in all of WFB). Additionally, they can counter magic with great magic defense and counter movement by forcing the enemy to close the distance or be shot to pieces. As such, they are well suited for people who prefer a more defensive style of play. On the other hand, if you want to be the aggressor and move about the field, then they are not an ideal choice.

Pros:
  • solid army book
  • nice model range
  • coolest magic item system in the game (runic items are fantastic with near infinite customizability)
  • great shooting
Cons:
  • extremely limited in terms of unit types / model types (no cavalry or monsters or monstrous infantry or war beasts or chariots, etc.)
  • lack of a magic phase (my favourite phase of the game)
  • limited movement
  • a less interesting play style in my personal opinion


The biggest question is... what model range do you like? That's something that should play a very large role in your decision.
Click to expand...

Not saying lizzies are bad, just their book has to much flaws and contradictions. Sorry poor wording from my side. English isn't my mothertongue.

I know i'm giving up on magic, but tbh while it is a fun phase, it can sometimes also mean nothing, if you throw bad for the winds of magic.

Chaos dwarfs doesn't have an official 8th edition book right? Our gaming group only plays with official GW books and rules.

Model range doesn't really matter tbh.
 
Pieter Smeyers said:
So i'm thinking to start a second army. I got lizzies of course but their 8th edition book is so bad, it starts to suck the fun out of the game.

After weighing my personal interests out, i come across dwarfs for the following reasons:

- no army without an 8th edition book (no bretts, skaven, beastmen).

- a few friends already play O&G

- no elves, never liked any of the 3 armies

- friend already plays WoC en OK

- VC isn't my thing and from the info i got TKs isn't much fun.

- no empire, don't like to play humies in a fantasy setting.

So that leaves daemons of chaos and dwarfs...

I'm leaning more towards dwarfs, because they got good shooting (something lizzies lack). From what i know from previous editions is that they don't really have magic, but are good at dispelling and anti magic.

How is there 8th edition army book? Lots of flaws and contradictions? Or is it pretty straight forward?
Click to expand...

I'd go with Ogre Kingdoms.

They're middle tier, so not buying a power army. They have some fun rules and ridiculous characters.

You could always check out the rulebook and see what you think.

Nothing wrong with Dwarves, solid army. They do lack a variety of playing strategies however, due to the lack of movement.

That said, they will always have a special place in my heart as my first ever army.
 
Great choice! Dwarfs were my first army and one of my favourites to this day. They may not have that strong movement, but they can charge up to 15" in 8th Edition so aren't as slow as they were (plus can annoy the sh*t out of people with their Gyrocopters and Bombers, plus deep-striking Miners and scouting Rangers), and you don't need magic when you're the master of anti-magic. Our shooting is the best in the game and while we can't go toe-to-toe with armies like Warriors of Chaos or Ogre Kingdoms in a fair melee fight, we can soften them up before they get to us to allow our unscathed melee units to finish them off comfortably. Also who needs Cavalry, Monstrous Infantry, Monstrous Cavalry and Monsters? Cavalry are underpowered in 8th anyway, and the rest are fodder for our artillery.

One thing you need to be aware of is that after their horrendously stupid idea to merge Dwarfs with the Empire, High Elves, Wood Elves and Dark Elves to create Cities of Sigmar, GW decided to stop making the late 6th Edition plastic Warriors, Thunderers/Quarrellers and Cannon/Organ Gun kits, which hits us hard because the former two are used to make most of our Core Choices and the latter is a staple every Dwarf player should have at least two of, so either you'll have to trawl EBay, look for second-hand models in stores or you'll need to go looking for alternatives. Mantic make a considerable Dwarf range that covers a lot of the army entries, but their Dwarfs have a really different aesthetic with few of the Celtic/Norse patterns and really blocky heads.

However, most of the (few) 8th Edition plastics released still exist - the Longbeard/Hammerer kit, the Ironbreaker/Irondrake kit, the Gyrobomer/Gyrocopter kit, the Runesmith (essential), Grimm Burloksson (who can be converted into a Master Engineer if you don't want to use him as he is) and King Belegar (who you can convert into a regular Dwarf Lord) are all available, and the Start Collecting Greywater Fastness box gives you a good selection to fill out your Special and Rare choices, so that's a start.

Chaos Dwarfs are cool as well but they were never given a level playing field by GW for some inapparent reason - even their first army book when they were in their prime was a White Dwarf exclusive, and the only official version of them usable in 8th is a small section of Tamurkhan that has a lot less choice than the fully-supported armies (the miniatures for which were Forge World and thus especially expensive and have now been canned anyway). I vote you go with regular Dwarfs.

I'll post some advice on how to build your army later, I've got a lot to do currently.
 
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Pieter Smeyers said:
I know i'm giving up on magic, but tbh while it is a fun phase, it can sometimes also mean nothing, if you throw bad for the winds of magic.
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I agree 100%. The magic phase is the most fickle phase in WFB. It can win you a game or do absolutely nothing.

I've always been a little bit bias in terms of magic, not for its power-level, but because I find it to be the most fun phase in the game.

Pieter Smeyers said:
Chaos dwarfs doesn't have an official 8th edition book right? Our gaming group only plays with official GW books and rules.
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Their rules come from the Forge World book Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos
91Pn12A2DUL.jpg


It's up to your gaming group as to whether or not you guys consider it to be official. Most people and tournaments do, but as the book was released through Forge World and not mainline GW, a few people may not.

Lizards of Renown said:
I'd go with Ogre Kingdoms.

They're middle tier,
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I'd say they are significantly better than middle tier. High upper tier in my mind, just shy of top tier. I think they are a good deal more potent than a true middle tier army like Lizardmen.

Pieter Smeyers said:
Also don't really like to have so few models on the battlefield.
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I know you said no armies without 8th edition books, but if you like having lots of models on the battlefield, Skaven are an ideal choice. Although Skaven are still currently running their 7th edition book, it was the very last book released for 7th. It is extremely viable in 8th edition with plenty of great options. Also, the army is strong. I'd place them as probably the 4th most powerful army in the game.

Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
Also who needs Cavalry, Monstrous Infantry, Monstrous Cavalry and Monsters?
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How dare you sir! :mad:

;)
 
Pieter Smeyers said:
Update: said i wouldn't play elves... Dark elves caught my eye now
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Noooo, they're evil sadistic murderers... and you can't trust them to boot! You can never trust an Elf! :oldman:

Just joking, you could choose to play them and Dwarfs if you wanted to. Look at me, I've been building up 5 armies and started a 6th at the end of last year!
 
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