AoS Third Rule of One

[Aginor]

Hey y'all!

I want to use this thread as a clarification and listing examples for the Third Rule of One, since some people (including me) are struggling with it sometimes.

Checklist:
1. was an ability used?
2. Does it create extra attacks OR does it create extra hit rolls, OR does it create extra wound rolls?
3. Is there a possibility that those mentioned under #2 could create attacks, hit rolls, or wound rolls?
--> That's what isn't allowed in matched play.


Now a few questions by me:

A: Does that apply to spells as well?

Example: The Ironjawz Weirdnob Shaman's signature spell: "Foot of Gork".
You do D6 damage, then you have a 50% chance of doing it again, until you fail. Basically the same as a Ripperdactyls bite, just much worse.

So here are my points:
1. Is a spell an ability? I'd say no, so the rule doesn't apply.
2. Even if it is: The Rule of One specifically mentions hit and wound rolls and generating: attacks, hit rolls and wound rolls. The "Foot of Gork" spell generates neither, it just causes mortal wounds. It is not an attack, it does not roll hits, and it does not roll wounds. That would also make the rule not apply.

My conclusion for part A would be:
It does not apply. The Foot of Gork can indeed stomp as much as it wants.


B:
I recently read a discussion here about the Rules of One affecting the Scar Veteran on Cold One or not. Short conclusion: Since it is not the attacks that generate further attacks, but the ability itself creating a limited amount of attacks, it is NOT limited by the third Rule of One. So I wondered: What other abilities seem to be affected but probably aren't?


So to get a better understanding let's take a look at some other abilities here:
- Ripperdactyls' "Voracious Appettite": It is even mentioned in the Rules of One's text box in the GHB. The attacks trigger an ability, it creates extra attacks
- Terradon Riders' "Sunleech Bolas": The attacks trigger an ability, the wound rolls are created. But there is no way I know of that would create more attacks, hit rolls, or wound rolls. So this ability is not affected.
- SOLVED, NOT AFFECTED, see discussion below: Megaboss on Maw-Krusha's "On the Rampage": It is an ability triggered by an attack (Destructive Bulk), and it triggers an additional attack. So the 3rd RoO affects it, this would happen just once instead unlimited (as per the ability's description).
EDIT: No, it isn't affected. "Destructive Bulk" is not an attack.

 

[Carnikang]

- Megaboss on Maw-Krusha's "On the Rampage": It is an ability triggered by an attack (Destructive Bulk), and it triggers an additional attack. So the 3rd RoO affects it, this would happen just once instead unlimited (as per the ability's description).

Incorrect. The text states "If the Wounds inflicted by a Maw Krusha's Destructive Bulk attack mean there are NO ENEMY MODELS LEFT WITHIN 3" of it, then it can immediately make another charge move (and subsequently continue to do this until it fails a charge or fails to kill all enemy models within 3").

The stipulation for activation is capped and highlighted.

 

[Aginor]

Huh...
Really? My interpretation was that since this only happens because of wounds caused by the Destructive Bulk the RoO3 would still apply.

 

[Seraphage]

Hey y'all!

I want to use this thread as a clarification and listing examples for the Third Rule of One, since some people (including me) are struggling with it sometimes.

Checklist:
1. was an ability used?
2. Does it create extra attacks OR does it create extra hit rolls, OR does it create extra wound rolls?
3. Is there a possibility that those mentioned under #2 could create attacks, hit rolls, or wound rolls?
--> That's what isn't allowed in matched play.


Now a few questions by me:

A: Does that apply to spells as well?

Example: The Ironjawz Weirdnob Shaman's signature spell: "Foot of Gork".
You do D6 damage, then you have a 50% chance of doing it again, until you fail. Basically the same as a Ripperdactyls bite, just much worse.

So here are my points:
1. Is a spell an ability? I'd say no, so the rule doesn't apply.
2. Even if it is: The Rule of One specifically mentions hit and wound rolls and generating: attacks, hit rolls and wound rolls. The "Foot of Gork" spell generates neither, it just causes mortal wounds. It is not an attack, it does not roll hits, and it does not roll wounds. That would also make the rule not apply.

My conclusion for part A would be:
It does not apply. The Foot of Gork can indeed stomp as much as it wants.

Does not really make any sense in my opinion. The only reason they put the rule of 1 was to balance imbalances, not make weaker units even worse while making others pointlessesly strong.
Waiting for @Bowser 's opinion though !

 

[Aginor]

Well, I don't know whether they knew, but that's what they did in quite some cases. Slann weren't an uber-unit anyway but they ruined their spellcasting with RoO2.
I even think the Ripperdactlys weren't imba before the RoO3. The statistical chance for them being imbalanced because of that ability is very low.

IMO the only really easily abusable thing is the "automatic hit/automatic save" situation solved by the RoO1. Bastiladon + 2x Mystic Shield = invulnerable unit. That kind of stuff.

 

[Bowser]

The Maw-Krusha destructive bulk is an ability that activates in the charge phase. It is not dependent on attacks to generate more attacks, it is dependant on a charge, and is not affected by the third rule of 1.

 

[Aginor]

Right, I think that's the important aspect. I agree. It is NOT affected by the RoO3. I was too concentrated on the word "wounds" as the cause.

So we cleared up that one!

 

[Carnikang]

Well, I don't know whether they knew, but that's what they did in quite some cases. Slann weren't an uber-unit anyway but they ruined their spellcasting with RoO2.
I even think the Ripperdactlys weren't imba before the RoO3. The statistical chance for them being imbalanced because of that ability is very low.

IMO the only really easily abusable thing is the "automatic hit/automatic save" situation solved by the RoO1. Bastiladon + 2x Mystic Shield = invulnerable unit. That kind of stuff.

All too true, though a Basti with a 1+ rerollable is still possible with one spellcaster. Put it in cover an have it a part o Thunderquake. Its not really that broken....;]

 

[Seraphage]

All too true, though a Basti with a 1+ rerollable is still possible with one spellcaster. Put it in cover an have it a part o Thunderquake. Its not really that broken....;]

Ask Stormcast, they end up 1+ with rerolls of 1 so often after all

 

[Aginor]

Yeah but the important one is that 1+ isn't a thing. A "natural" one before modifiers is always a missed roll.
EDIT: Oh, and I swapped RoO1 with RoO2 in my above post. Sorry.
I'll write them here again so I learn them:

- RoO1: Spells can be attempted just once
- RoO2: A natural 1 (before modifiers) is always a failed roll
- RoO3: Extra attacks/hit rolls/wound rolls created by abilites cannot create more extra attacks

 

[Carnikang]

Yeah but the important one is that 1+ isn't a thing. A "natural" one before modifiers is always a missed roll

Entirely true. But, ut does require -2 Rend or better to push it to a 3+. That really is the only issue ive found in AoS that causes more issues than powerful/undercosted shooting.
A 2+ rerollable is just broken on things like Archeon, who can ignoe spells entirely.

Bah, at any rate, the Rules of One are good, but they may need a litte bit o revision and adjutment over time.

 

[m0gstar]

Bastiladons do not benefit from cover saves as they are behemoths

 

[Carnikang]

Bastiladons do not benefit from cover saves as they are behemoths

The 4-Page rules dont say anything about cover and Behemoths. Is it inth Generals handbook somewhere?

EDIT- Nevermind, found it. One paragraph on pg 109. Welp, another thing to remember now.