8th Ed. Throne of Vines/Cupped Hand

[eppe]

If I take Cupped Hands with my Slaan and Throne of Vines is active what takes effect first? Can I choose which to use?

 

[eppe]

Never mind, found the answer in the FAQ.

 

[Stonecutter]

If I take Cupped Hands with my Slaan and Throne of Vines is active what takes effect first? Can I choose which to use?

Based on my own experience, fate will intervene to defy the odds. As a consequence, you will roll IF when casting throne of vines on two dice, then roll a 1 to avoid the miscast with ToV and another 1 to avoid it with the cupped hands. Following that, the dimensional cascade that sucks the slaan into the void will seem almost routine

 

[Arli]

I thought I was the only one that had that kind of luck.

 

[eppe]

I thought I figured it out but now my friends are arguing with me. I think I understand but they seem to disagree. I honestly just want to know the official rule, not our interpretation.


The FAQ states


Q. There are several items that can affect miscasts, such as
Cupped Hands of the Old Ones, Soul of Stone and Infernal Puppet.
If more than one (or multiples of the same item) are present, in what
order should the effects be applied? (p102)
A. The player whose turn is taking place chooses.


Does this also mean that I choose when ToV goes off?

Do you roll the miscast prior to ToV and Cupped Hands going off?

If so which takes affect first, or is it players choice?

 

[n810]

Yuo make the decisions about your dice throws.

I believe TOV goes first, I believe it says something like 2+ save against miscast.
While Cuped Hands passes a miscast rusult on a 2+ so you have to have a roll on the miscast table first.
See the Cupped Hands FAQ for more details.

 

[Stonecutter]

When one reads the rules for irresistible force (IF) and miscasts, the spell takes effect first and then the miscast is applied (top of page 34, CRB). The general FAQ reinforces this ruling on ToV as follows:

Q: If a Wizard casts Throne of Vines with Irresistible Force do
they get to ignore the miscast on a 2+ as the miscast occurs after the
spell is cast? (Reference)
A: Yes.

Now, coupled with the lizard FAQ on cupped hands, it is apparent that both ToV and its "save" are conducted first. Then, if and only if that save is failed would the cupped hands come into play since a successful ToV roll of 2+ means that any miscast is ignored and, in essence, doesn't occur.

 

[Bananmats]

Anyone that has Page 10 handy ?

It says something like, when two rules collide, like Vine and Cupped. The players whos turn it is choose.

 

[BEEGfrog]

The player can choose to use cupped hands, ToV or both.

However, the way that the rules work, a strict observation of sequence of play means that he cannot use ToV if he has already tried to use cupped hands.

Cupped hands transfers the effects of a miscast and ToV transfers the actual miscast, sequencing means that the decision to transfer happens before the miscast roll for ToV but after the miscast roll for cupped hands. By moving on to the decision point for cupped hands you miss the opportunity to use ToV.

If your group is less strict about procedure you can allow the decision about cupped hands to be made early and still allow ToV to be used if you get a 1 on cupped hands.

Cupped hands is sufficiently good enough to be more than worthwhile even with this minor debuffing.

 

[eppe]

So once you decide to roll for Cupped Hands you can not use the ToV if you fail your Cupped Hands roll (ie rolling a 1) even though you have not rolled on the miscast table yet?

 

[n810]

" but after the miscast roll for cupped hands." (see above)