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AoS Thunder Lizard vs Ossiarch Bonereapers (2,000 points)

Discussion in 'Seraphon Army Lists' started by Christopher, Jul 5, 2021.

  1. Christopher
    Terradon

    Christopher Well-Known Member

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    I asked a question about this in the Rules forum yesterday (I think) but now I’m getting down to business.

    Before the game day I’m hosting on August 8th, my friend David has agreed to play a practice 2,000 point game with me in two weeks (July 18th).

    Below, you’ll find the information he shared with me about his Ossiarch Bonereapers army, then a list of the units I’m using in this, my first 3.0 game, against him.

    Here are the texts David sent me about his army, verbatim:

    “Point changes in GHB defanged my 2k list a bit. Can't run double crawlers and a harvester now unless I sacrifice battleline and I don't want to do that.”

    “Crawlers are Artillery, Gothizzar Harvester is a Behemoth.”

    “I could keep all three but that would mean dropping a squad of ded ponies and I don't want to drop a battleline unit. That means I have to decide if I want another squad of mortek guard bros or the dude in the baby carrier.”

    “Katakros is the big bad but I'm running a generic Liege-Kavalos, he's a cavalry Hero.” [I’m taking him to mean that “generic Liege-Kavalos” as his General, as this was in response to my asking who his General was].​

    I’m planning on picking up the Battletome: Ossiarch Bonereapers to read up on this army.

    Now, here’s the list of units that I’ll be running against him. The only thing I’ve figured out is that it’s a Thunder Lizards Army. I haven’t even come close to choosing Enhancements, choosing a General, or choosing Battalions. Neither do I have much of an idea about tactics/strategies to use against this particular opponent with the list I’ve chosen. Those things are where I really need your help, please and thank you!

    This army list is not based on anything at all besides the fact that these are the models I want to take (which in turn is based on what I can get built and painted in the next two weeks). I’ve always wanted to run five dinosaurs at the same time!

    Coalesced/Thunder Lizard Army

    Bastiladon with Solar Engine (235) Behemoth (monster)
    Stegadon with Skink Chief (skystreak bow) (265) Battleline (monster, hero)
    Skink Oracle on Troglodon (270) Leader/Behemoth (monster, hero, wizard)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (215) Leader/Behemoth (monster, hero)
    Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (270) Leader/Behemoth (monster, hero)

    Saurus Knights w/Spears x 5 (110) Battleline
    Saurus Knights w/Spears x 10 (220) Battleline (reinforced once)

    Skink Priest (80) (priest, hero)
    Skink Priest (80) (priest, hero)
    Skink Starpriest (130) Leader (wizard, hero)

    Ghur Battlemage (ally) (115) (wizard, hero)

    Endless Spells: Geminds of Uhl-Gysh and Emerald Lifeswarm
    Faction Scenery: Realmshaper Engine

    Total points: 1,990
    Total wounds: 114 (taking the +2 each Monster gets into account)
    Units: 11
    Models: 24

    Again, any advice you can offer (or commentary on any mistakes I've made) would be genuinely and greatly appreciated.
     
  2. R1eye
    Jungle Swarm

    R1eye New Member

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    The stegadon with skink chief (skink priest with new FAQ) is 305 points with the aos 3.0 points update. I should mention I am by no means a super experienced thunder lizards player but I thought I'd share my thoughts anyway. As far as strategies go, you of course want to make sure you can take full advantage of the thunder lizard command ability, Because of this I've been known to take two different units that can benefit from it (engine and bastilodon or double bastilodon). This helps you have a bit of tactical flexibility. It seems like you're looking to put a number of points into wizards and spells. So why not take some of the better seraphon wizards? The inclusion of a troglodon would synergize best with kroak or even a slann. I've never taken a trog without a slann of some sort to cast though it.

    The bone reapers are generally pretty slow so taking knights isn't a terrible idea since they could behave well on the flanks or sit on objectives. I haven't ran them in 10s in the new edition so I'm not to sure how that will behave. 10 knights + serpents staff from skink startpriest used to be a pretty solid combo. New coherency brings that down a bit though.

    Here's a Thunder lizard list I used in a game earlier this week. It's far from refined and doesnt use too many of the same models you hope to use but it's interesting non the less.

    Vet on carno (215)(Hero)
    -General
    -Prime war beast
    -Amulet of Destiny (5+ ward)

    Slann (265) (Hero)
    -Stellar Temptest
    Starpriest (130)(Hero)
    -Hand of glory
    Priest (80)(Hero)
    Engine (265)(Hero, Artillery)
    -Fusil of Configuration

    Bast w solar (235)(Behemoth)
    Steg w bow (265)(Battleline)
    Steg w bow (265)(Battleline)

    skinksx20 (150)(Battleline)

    Gaurd x5 (115)(Battleline)

    Total Points (1985)

    I brought a warlord and a line breaker battalion

    The idea was to push up the center hard with the stegadons, camp the bastillodon on an objective. Flank around the sides with the carnosaur using the stegs or bastilodon as an anvil to secure the charge bonus. Skinks plus wizards are just there to apply mortal wounds and magic support (skinks+serpent staff and comets call).

    If I was to run this list again I'd probably lose the skinks in favor of more guard since I found my slann to be vulnerable. I also wasn't supper happy with the relatively high drops of this list either. I've found with the slightly smaller board for aos 3.0 that first turn charges are a bit more do able on some of the battle plans. Perhaps working in a starseer would work well for the better charge.
     
  3. Christopher
    Terradon

    Christopher Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! I corrected the Stegadon with Skink Chief points and dropped one of the Skink Priests and now come in at 1,950, which I'm pretty sure will give me a good shot at a Triumph Enhancement.

    Thanks, too, for your roster and battle-tested insight. I'm pretty set on these models, unfortunately. I know how long it takes me to build and paint, and I really, really want to field a fully painted army. I've got a Slann and a Skink Starseer built, but not painted, and those look like very complicated jobs to me. I'll have a lot of stuff to do even as it is (like building and painting ten Knights and a Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur.) Also, FIVE DINOSAURS!

    I spent the afternoon looking at Enhancements and Battalions and will throw up a first draft of that here, probably later tonight.
     
  4. Tyranitar
    Ripperdactil

    Tyranitar Well-Known Member

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    One of my close friends plays OBR so I can offer some insight. For starters, OBR got gutted pretty badly with the treatment they got in the FAQ/errata. Not sure how experienced your friend is, but the new command ability rules do apply to OBR sadly (only one of the same CA per phase, only one CA per unit per phase, only one CA issued by a hero per phase) and they still do not have access to the generic command abilities in the core rules. Just wanted you to be aware of that to clear up any confusion.

    That aside, the crawlers are the only ranged attack they have. They used to be scarier, but they have no rend so keep a CA free for an all out defense on whatever they target and you should make out ok. One note - do not deal chip damage to the crawlers. They have a special once per game shot that can instantly slay a model and it gets more likely the more bracketed they are (I lost kroak to this in one shot once, never again lol). If your opponent fields one or more crawlers you can likely just ignore them, they aren't scary anymore imo. If possible, I would recommend engaging one unit of mortek at a time now since they can only benefit from one command ability in the combat phase. Guard have a CA on their scroll that allows them to reroll failed saves in melee, or they can be given +1 attack each from a hero. However by only engaging one unit at a time, they will have to choose between offense or defense. Katakros will be a general in addition to the liege kavalos, he gained that rule in the errata. The benefit to that is that he has a CA that he may only use if he's the general, so before you had to basically choose access to that CA or giving someone else a command trait. Now they get both which is cool. Katakros' CA is very powerful, it essentially gives his entire army +1 hit and +1 save, the bubble gets reduced as he brackets. He will also reduce your CP by 1 on a 4+, and picks a unit to be -1 to hit on all profiles each turn. Katakros actually has an interesting warscroll in that his melee profile gets stronger the more bracketed he is (representing his body guards dying before he actually starts fighting himself) so keep that in mind. He also restores 3 wounds to 3 different units in his hero phase, so again focusing things down is key as opposed to spreading your damage. I would highly recommend using one of your monsters to destroy the obr faction terrain as early as is reasonable, it has some nasty debuffs in a wide range. Lastly, OBR are slow but used to make up for it by having a CA that added 3" to their movement. Now though, they can only use that on one unit per turn (why GW...just why???). So you should be able to run circles around them pretty easily. The cav are his only mobile unit, but they really don't hit that hard. Try to kill them off early if possible so you dictate the flow of the battle.

    TLDR - ignore the crawlers and katakros, focus fire on one unit of mortek at a time, try to neutralize the cav to dominate the movement phase, destroy the terrain at your earliest convenience, and save a CP for all out defense vs the crawlers. If he fields a gothizar harvester, that should be your primary target. Don't put any firepower into the mortek guard until the harvester is dead, it will just continue resurrecting them.

    Hope this helps! Like I said, OBR made out terribly with the way the core rules changed but it should be a fun learning experience for you regardless! Let me know if you need or want any further explanation!
     
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  5. Christopher
    Terradon

    Christopher Well-Known Member

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    Amazing. Thank you so much!
     
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  6. Zargore
    Skink

    Zargore New Member

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    A couple of corrections. Stegadon Chief is not battleline in Thunder Lizard only regular stegadons are. You can only have 4 behemoths, which brings you over that by one.

    In the list presented by R1eye, it is not possible to take the linebreaker battalion, as stegadons as battleline, according to the new core rules lose all other roles.
     
  7. Christopher
    Terradon

    Christopher Well-Known Member

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    Cool, cool, and thanks. I'll just run it as a regular Stegadon and pick that extra Skink Priest back up, probably!
     
  8. Christopher
    Terradon

    Christopher Well-Known Member

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    Okay, here’s me showing my work. The latest draft, anyway. I’ll go ahead and explain the rather bizarre inclusion of the Ripperdactyl Chief up front. I want all units in a Battalion and the requirements of the Warlord Battalion dictate that there be at least two Sub-commanders, which are Leaders with less than 10 wounds. So, I swapped out what had been a second Skink Priest for this guy. Oh well, at least I already have a model built and painted up for him.

    Coalesced Seraphon Thunder Lizard Army

    Warlord Battalion
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (Commander)
    Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (Commander)
    Skink Starpriest (Sub-commander)
    --Spell Lore: Fiery Convocation
    Ripperdactyl Chief (Sub-commander)
    Skink Priest: (Troop)
    --Prayer Scripture: Heal
    Ghur Battlemage (ally) (Troop)
    --Spell Lore: Levitate

    Linebreaker Battalion
    Skink Oracle on Troglodon (Commander)
    --General
    --Command Trait: Prime Warbeast
    --Artefact of Power: Cloak of Feathers
    --Spell Lore: Hand of Glory
    Bastiladon with Solar Engine (Monster)
    Stegadon with Skystreak Bow (Monster)

    Hunters of the Heartlands Battalion
    Saurus Knights x 5 (Troops)
    Saurus Knights x 10 (Troops)

    Faction Terrain: Realmshaper Engine
    Grand Strategy: Beast Master
    Triumphs (very unlikely, but anyway)—Bloodthirsty

    Total Points: 1,995
    Total Wounds: 115
    Total Drops: 3
    Units: 11
    Models: 25 (including Faction Terrain)
     
  9. Christopher
    Terradon

    Christopher Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to look at this until I'm cross-eyed. Another way that I'm personally thinking about it is like this:

    Models to Build and Prime
    Realmshaper Engine (terrain)
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur
    Ghur Battlemage
    Saurus Knights x 12

    Built Models to Fully Paint
    Bastiladon with Solar Engine
    Stegadon with Skystreak Bow
    Saurus Knights x 3

    Built Models to Partly Paint
    Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur

    Models Fully Built and Painted
    Skink Starpriest
    Ripperdactyl Chief
    Skink Priest
    Skink Oracle on Troglodon

    One thing I was considering--if it turns out Realms of Battle no longer exist so that allied Ghur Battlemage doesn't get his +1 to casting roles etc in pretty much every battle for the next year, I could drop him (and the Ripperdactyl Chief), netting enough points to field the second Skink Priest I was thinking about earlier AND a unit of Saurus Guard, which are really only of interest because (a) I could use them in the faction terrain where I'm planning on parking the Skink Starpriest as kind of a bodyguard and (b) I think that with the exception of my Astrolith Bearer, the Guards are the five best models I've painted.
     
  10. Tyranitar
    Ripperdactil

    Tyranitar Well-Known Member

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    I think the battalions here don't work. Linebreakers requires behemoths but the stegs count as battleline in thunder lizard so they don't fit the requirements. You could swap the oldblood carno or scarnosaur for the steg to make the linebreaker legal. For the warlord battalion, the heroes cannot count as a troop I don't think

    Edit: wait that doesn't work for linebreaker, it says behemoth that is not a leader
     
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  11. Christopher
    Terradon

    Christopher Well-Known Member

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    Well fiddle. Good points on Linebreaker. As for Troops, though, the only requirement is that they NOT be Leaders, Artillery, or Behemoths and I don't think the Skink Priest or the Ghur Battlemage are.

    If I have to go to four drops to maintain this list I will, I guess. If I can't figure out how to make them all fit in three anyway.

    Thanks!
     
  12. Christopher
    Terradon

    Christopher Well-Known Member

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    Okay, how about this? I move the Stegadon to fill the third available Troops slot in Hunters of the Heartland, leave the Skink/Trog and the Bastiladon in Linebreaker, and leave the two Carnosaurs where they are as the Commanders in Warlord.

    ETA That doesn't work either, dang! Linebreaker requires there be a Commander and TWO Monsters.

    Second ETA: This is actually kind of hilarious. Despite the fact that I have FIVE dinosaurs that have the keyword "monster," only one of them counts as such in Battalion Unit Icons.
     
  13. Christopher
    Terradon

    Christopher Well-Known Member

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    Okay, how about this?

    Battle Regiment

    Commander: Skink Oracle on Troglodon
    Troop: Saurus Knights x 5
    Troop: Saurus Knights x10
    Troop: Stegadon with Skystreak Bow
    Troop: Ghur Battlemage (ally)
    Monster: Bastiladon with Solar Engine

    Warlord

    Commander: Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur
    Commander: Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur
    Sub-commander: Skink Starpriest
    Sub-commander: Ripperdactyl Chief
    Troop: Skink Priest
     
  14. Christopher
    Terradon

    Christopher Well-Known Member

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    Sigh. That doesn't quite work either. Skink Priests are Leaders and can't be Troops. But I think it'll be fairly easy to move things around, and this discovery should mean I can drop the Ripper Chief in favor of a second Skink Priest. The same goes for Battlemages, but him I'll keep.
     
  15. Christopher
    Terradon

    Christopher Well-Known Member

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    Do I have it right this time? Probably not! But I'm getting there!
    -------
    Coalesced Seraphon Thunder Lizard Army (Draft 5)


    Warlord Battalion
    Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (Commander)
    Saurus Oldblood on Carnosaur (Commander)
    Skink Starpriest (Sub-commander)
    --Spell Lore: Fiery Convocation
    Skink Priest (Sub-commander)
    --Prayer Scripture: Heal
    Skink Priest (Sub-commander)
    --Prayer Scripture: Guidance
    Saurus Knights x 5 (Troops)

    Battle Regiment
    Skink Oracle on Troglodon (Commander)
    --General
    --Command Trait: Prime Warbeast
    --Artefact of Power: Cloak of Feathers
    --Spell Lore: Hand of Glory
    Ghur Battlemage (ally) (Sub-commander)
    --Spell Lore: Levitate
    Stegadon with Skystreak Bow (Troop)
    Saurus Knights x 10 (Troops)
    Bastiladon with Solar Engine (Monster)

    Faction Terrain: Realmshaper Engine
    Grand Strategy: Beast Master
    Triumphs (very unlikely, but anyway)—Bloodthirsty

    Total Points: 1,990
    Total Wounds: 114
    Total Drops: 2
    Units: 11
    Models: 24 (including Faction Terrain)
     
  16. Tyranitar
    Ripperdactil

    Tyranitar Well-Known Member

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    That works. I do have some recommendations though. The only battalion that lowers your drops is the battle regiment, so this list is still 7 drops. I think most lists this edition are going to be either 1 drop or 3-4 drop. At 5+ you aren't really competing in this space, so you're better off not bothering with the battle regiment and instead looking into one of the other battalions for a benefit.

    This list also has 7 leaders so you'll have to drop one. I know you're set on running 5 big dinos but the troglodon is pretty bad without kroak basically which is unfortunate, but if you want to use it that's cool. I would suggest making either the oldblood or scarnosaur your general tho for prime warbeast, adding extra attacks to the carnosaur is far superior to the trog.

    I think you mentioned you have stegadons available right? If you cut the trog and one of the priests you'll have points to run a Skink Chief on steg, make that the general and use prime warbeast on it. If you're interested in that route let me know, I'll tell you how to buff up the steg chief for amazing damage output
     
  17. Zargore
    Skink

    Zargore New Member

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    Seem legit. I will also say, the core battalions is the most difficult part for me as well. Our units having very few roles and then the limit on 10 wounds for heroes to be commander and not sub-commander is hard to get around, especially in a thunder lizard army.
     
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  18. Christopher
    Terradon

    Christopher Well-Known Member

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    Well, fooey. I guess I'm still used to all battalions being one drop, but of course if one of them is listed SPECIFICALLY as one drop then by extension the others aren't. I should have known that!

    I'll take all of your advice under consideration and get back with you on what I need to do to mess with things!
     
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  19. Christopher
    Terradon

    Christopher Well-Known Member

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    Truer words were never typed!
     
  20. Christopher
    Terradon

    Christopher Well-Known Member

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    I do have two unbuilt Stegadon/Engine of the Gods yes. If you have a minute to tell me about buffing the Stegadon with Skink Chief I'd love to read all about it!
     
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