8th Ed. Troop type: Monster (character), flying skirmisher?

[Neersh]

Hi all,

This seemed the most alive WHFB 8th edition discussion board I could find with some light googling, and I've read some enlightening discussions from here before. So, lo and behold, just registered to the aboard and doing a first post! I'm such a newb.


1) Anyhow, my confusion concerns the handling of the troop type "Monster (character)" in general, which for example daemon princes and greater daemons are (been looking into chaos army lists lately).

They usually have the Large Target special rule, which makes them easier to hit with missile weapons. However if they have wings, they have the Fly special rule, which automatically grants the model the Skirmish special rule, which in turn grants it the "Light Troops" rule (found under "Skirmishers" in the BRB), which makes the model harder to hit with missile fire, basically negating the Large Target rule.

This makes absolutely no sense to me fluff-wise (a large target which is even larger due to wings, is as difficult to hit as a standard infantry model because it moves a few inches faster than a galloping horse?), but after trying to dig my way through all the related rules, I can't find any implication that it would work in some other way.

Do you have any other interpretations of this, or have I missed something?

2) The second question is a bit related. It is stated that a lone character (which I imagine applies to a lone Monster (character) troop type?) can get a 4+ look out sir! save if there is a unit strong enough of the same troop type close enough.

Does this mean that the unit needs to be of troop type: Monster, Character, Monster (character) or any of them? (such units wouldn't exist or be feasible in a real game of course, so this question is more of an academic nature).

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Hi all,

This seemed the most alive WHFB 8th edition discussion board I could find with some light googling, and I've read some enlightening discussions from here before. So, lo and behold, just registered to the aboard and doing a first post! I'm such a newb.


1) Anyhow, my confusion concerns the handling of the troop type "Monster (character)" in general, which for example daemon princes and greater daemons are (been looking into chaos army lists lately).

They usually have the Large Target special rule, which makes them easier to hit with missile weapons. However if they have wings, they have the Fly special rule, which automatically grants the model the Skirmish special rule, which in turn grants it the "Light Troops" rule (found under "Skirmishers" in the BRB), which makes the model harder to hit with missile fire, basically negating the Large Target rule.

This makes absolutely no sense to me fluff-wise (a large target which is even larger due to wings, is as difficult to hit as a standard infantry model because it moves a few inches faster than a galloping horse?), but after trying to dig my way through all the related rules, I can't find any implication that it would work in some other way.

Do you have any other interpretations of this, or have I missed something?

2) The second question is a bit related. It is stated that a lone character (which I imagine applies to a lone Monster (character) troop type?) can get a 4+ look out sir! save if there is a unit strong enough of the same troop type close enough.

Does this mean that the unit needs to be of troop type: Monster, Character, Monster (character) or any of them? (such units wouldn't exist or be feasible in a real game of course, so this question is more of an academic nature).

First off, welcome to the forum!

We have an active 8th edition group here but you can also find more on Eighth Edition For Life forum (Google that phrase and you'll get it).

I'll get you the relevant passages from the BRB in a little bit.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

1) Anyhow, my confusion concerns the handling of the troop type "Monster (character)" in general, which for example daemon princes and greater daemons are (been looking into chaos army lists lately).

They usually have the Large Target special rule, which makes them easier to hit with missile weapons. However if they have wings, they have the Fly special rule, which automatically grants the model the Skirmish special rule, which in turn grants it the "Light Troops" rule (found under "Skirmishers" in the BRB), which makes the model harder to hit with missile fire, basically negating the Large Target rule.

So the BRB actually says under the special rule "FLYING" that "In addition, because of their loose fighting style, flying units consisting of more than one model have the skirmishers special rule."

The monster doesn't get that as it is not part of a unit of flying models.

2) The second question is a bit related. It is stated that a lone character (which I imagine applies to a lone Monster (character) troop type?) can get a 4+ look out sir! save if there is a unit strong enough of the same troop type close enough.

Does this mean that the unit needs to be of troop type: Monster, Character, Monster (character) or any of them? (such units wouldn't exist or be feasible in a real game of course, so this question is more of an academic nature).

In the section "CHARACTERS AND UNITS" under "CHARACTER MOUNTS" and then "RIDDEN MONSTERS" it says "If a character has a ridden monster, the whole model is treated as having the troop type monster..."

Under the "LOOK OUT SIR" rule it says "If a lone character is hit by a shooting attack of any kind (including shots fired using ballistic skill, templates and so on) a 'LOOK OUT SIR' roll can be attempted, provided there is a friendly unit consisting of five or more rank and file models of the character's troop type within 3"."

Monsters are by definition not rank and file so this rule would not apply to a character on a ridden monster. If you were on a monstrous beast and were within 3" of a monstrous cavalry unit, you would be able to get the save.

Hope this helps.

Best, LoR

 

[Neersh]

Ah, thanks a ton!

How had I missed that "consisting more than one model" part, after supposedly wading through the fly and skirmish rule entries several times?!

Oh well, now it makes more sense.

 

[Lizards of Renown]

Ah, thanks a ton!

How had I missed that "consisting more than one model" part, after supposedly wading through the fly and skirmish rule entries several times?!

Oh well, now it makes more sense.

no worries

I wouldn't worry about it. I've been over the BRB countless times and I still find notes or parts of rules that I didn't see before.

You just need to go over it again and again and it will all download to your brain eventually

Just make sure there aren't any terms or words being used that you don't get, that will trip you up on remembering things.

 

[Killer Angel]

Hi all,

This seemed the most alive WHFB 8th edition discussion board I could find with some light googling, and I've read some enlightening discussions from here before. So, lo and behold, just registered to the aboard and doing a first post! I'm such a newb.

Since the question have already been answered, i will only welcome you.

Do you have some friends that still play 8th?

 

[Neersh]

Thanks Angel.

I have a few regular opponents with whom we still play WHFB 8th edition in my weekly tabletop-rpg group. We play wh40k and a bunch of other miniature games too, so it tends to fluctuate over time which game we're playing at a time. Miniature gaming doesn't happen too often though, because all the other gaming and stupid adult real-life stuff coming in the way, but we try to play at least once every few months.

 

[Killer Angel]

Thanks Angel.

I have a few regular opponents with whom we still play WHFB 8th edition in my weekly tabletop-rpg group. We play wh40k and a bunch of other miniature games too, so it tends to fluctuate over time which game we're playing at a time. Miniature gaming doesn't happen too often though, because all the other gaming and stupid adult real-life stuff coming in the way, but we try to play at least once every few months.

Nice!
What 40k armies do you play?

 

[Neersh]

I have a horde of tyranids and a never-ending project of building a tabletop-worthy genestealer cult army started around Wh40k 2nd edition.

But perhaps we should keep the general chatter out of this thread to keep this Rules Help section of the forum relatively clutter-free for possible future viewers?

 

[Killer Angel]

I have a horde of tyranids and a never-ending project of building a tabletop-worthy genestealer cult army started around Wh40k 2nd edition.

But perhaps we should keep the general chatter out of this thread to keep this Rules Help section of the forum relatively clutter-free for possible future viewers?

You're right. here you are!