7th Ed. Unitbuild...

[Enigma]

Hi everyone!

How do I build a unit? I've read somewhere that a unit needs to be atleast five models wide to get rank bonuses, but I can't seem to find where it's written.

Thanks!

 

[Rattenfänger]

Page 38; Extra Rank;

 

[strewart]

Interesting question, not quite sure what you mean...

A unit is simply a bunch of individual models, so start by putting them together. It can help to have a bit of an idea how the unit will go together, start with the command models, then build the others up around them, doing a dry run to make sure they will rank up properly. Often arms, shields etc. can interfere with the model next to them and make them not rank up nicely.

A unit does need to be at least 5 wide for ranks, and some units you might want to stretch to 6 or even 7 wide. Generally that depends on how strong they are and to a degree how big their base is; 25mm (saurus base) 7 wide is too big and not all would fit against a 5 wide 20mm unit, while 7 wide 20mm (skink bases) can be acceptable for small hard hitting support units. Then you also need to decide how many ranks you want, the maximum bonus is 3 ranks behind the first for +3 so usually units are good with 20 models, 5x4. Ranked skinks can be good as support and be 5x2, and cavalry are obviously much smaller.

Hope that helps.

 

[Enigma]

Page 38; Extra Rank;

Ah, that was what i meant, sorry for not being to clear.

But I read it right and I need the ranks to be 5 units wide to gain rank bonuses, then it seem like cavalry hardly ever gain rank bonuses... I think you get 8 cold one riders in the battalion set, but they wont have any bonus, correct?

 

[Dalkarius]

That is correct. 8 Cold One Riders is a strange number imo unless you want two ranks of 4. Most I believe take 5 maybe with a Scar-vet putting them at 6.

 

[Barotok]

The only way to run a unit of COC with a +1 static resolution due to rank bonus is to run a unit of 10 @ 5x2.

Expensive and hardly efficient.

 

[strewart]

Page 38; Extra Rank;

Ah, that was what i meant, sorry for not being to clear.

But I read it right and I need the ranks to be 5 units wide to gain rank bonuses, then it seem like cavalry hardly ever gain rank bonuses... I think you get 8 cold one riders in the battalion set, but they wont have any bonus, correct?

You are right, cavalry hardly ever get a rank bonus. Nor should they. A block of 20 has 5 models in combat, that will average maybe 2-3 wounds depending on who is fighting. Then they get 3 ranks, standard, maybe outnumber as static combat res. A unit of cavalry charging, however, especially ones like COKs that have 2 attacks each should be averaging 5-6 wounds and leaving nothing to fight back against them. They do not need to rely on the ranks for combat resolution.

Cavalry also cost a LOT more points per model. A unit of 6 could ones will cost you around 200 points depending on what you give them, this is getting close to a unit of 20 saurus. So you can immediately see it is impractical to try to get ranks on cavalry units.

You need to think about what you are actually paying for in a model to get them to their cost, and if they are expensive because of killing power you want to maximize the number of them in combat attacking (ie. go to 6 wide) and do that at the expense of ranks, while trying to find a balance. Example, just 2 HE swordmasters are the cost of a COK but they get multiple s5 WS6 attacks that always strike first, they are killing machines! A block of 20 of them is a big waste of points, all those models at the back are just providing 2-3 points of static combat res. A unit of 7 of them, or 14, both 7 wide gets a lot of models in combat, is cheaper and will kill better than the standard block.


The advantage of having a unit of 8 COKs is you would put 6 at the front and 2 at the back, the two at the back would be to absorb shooting/magic to make sure they reach combat with high numbers. You might do that if you have given the unit a magic banner or something, if they are meant to be a heavy power unit that takes opponents head on it is worth spending a bit more to really make sure they get to combat. If you only want them as support, then 5 or 6 is far better.

 

[Serpentsire]

Eight is plenty for Cavalry I though, as each has a unit strength of two you only need three in each row to get rank bonus. This is why the Bretonian Lance formation works so well.

 

[Barotok]

you only need three in each row to get rank bonus

This is 100% incorrect. The rulebook specifically states that you may only claim a rank bonus when your unit is 5 models wide. The unit strength of the unit (be it infantry or cavalry), is irrelevent. While the Bretonian army may have a special rule allowing this (I'm not sure off the top of my head), Lizardmen must follow the standard rules for cavalry. (BRB38)

 

[strewart]

Yeah Bretonnians have a special rule to get ranks for having only 3 cavalry models across in their unique lance formation, for everything else you need to be 5. This includes ogres, so it is now (was 4 models across for a rank in 6th ed) quite hard for them to get rank bonuses.

The main reason the Bret lance works so well is not the ranks it provides, but that on the charge not just the front the models can fight. The 'outside' models in all ranks can fight as well. So a lance of 9 models (3x3) will actually have 7 of them able to fight on the charge, and even if there is a model or two alive to fight back the maximum they can kill is 3 knights because that is all in BTB.

 

[blackhawk]

and even if there is a model or two alive to fight back the maximum they can kill is 3 knights because that is all in BTB.

incorrect. you can kill as many models tehre are in a unit.
only characters and other specific models need to be in btb to be attacked.

if you are sure that you are correct, please give me a page# of the brb where it states what you are saying.

 

[strewart]

Edit: You are right, I got confused with two other rules and made a silly mistake. Only models in contact with the knights will be able to attack them, but you would need a pretty wide unit for 3 knights not to allow the whole front rank to attack back (if any are alive).

 

[Serpentsire]

So does GW just not care about these armies (ogres) or just that they are forgetful. And then, wow, that means that 8 in a box is absolutely worthless.

 

[strewart]

They probably do care about Ogres, but I imagine Ogres don't have a huge support base and really GW can't update everything at once. I imagine when they get a new book (in a few years if they're lucky) the rules will balance out a bit. Some armies cop rule changes worse than others unfortunately.

And yes, 8 is a useless number for a box of cavalry. As is 16 for a box of saurus. Both are throwbacks to 6th ed when you only need 4 across. I wouldn't have thought it would be too hard to update the box size, but I guess GW get more money giving us stupid numbers.

 

[blackhawk]

ind, and gw is not a real game maker but a miniture selling company. with as bonus game rules
so yeah if you need 30 skinks you need to buy 2 boxes of 24 skinks. etc...

 

[The_Curly_One]

I've actually found GW's odd numbers helpful. I am running two units of 10 skink skirmisher, a unit of 16 cohorts, and 2 units of 18 saurus. I bought the battalion box, a box of skinks, and a box of saurus. I get the right size units with the right number of models.

 

[Dreadgrass]

They've attempted to compensate for no ranks with the ogres by giving them the bull charge... they get bonuses to the strength of it for each line of ogres behind the 1st (If I say "rank" I'll confuse... each rank but numbers is irrelevant... hope that explains it) HUZZAH FOR MILDLY OFF TOPIC!!!!!

 

[Barotok]

gw is not a real game maker

I thought Citadel made GW's minis?

It would be nice to see GW update their box sizes to better fit what the consumer is buying. But hey, if you can get a player to buy two boxes to get the unit size he needs, thats more on your bottom line. So I can definitely understand why they do it, to maximize profit.