8th Ed. What happens in a Skrox unit if all the skinks die...

[Benny6Toes]

...and there are wounds left over?

You'd think I know this considering I tend to bring at least one Skrox unit a game, but I have a difficult time justifying what happens when challenged; or maybe I'm just flat-out wrong.

Ex: A unit starting with 16 skinks and 2 kroxigors.
By the time they get to close combat (or in the second round of close combat) they have been reduced to 8 skinks and 2 kroxigors. Assume the close combat unit has no special characters and isn't mixed, and therefor all the models in the attacking unit have the same initiative.

Your opponent gets 10 unsaved wounds. What happens?

1) Two wounds are lost since you can only attack models in base-to-base combat unless it's a supporting attack. Since all attacks at the same initiative value happen at the same time and since they were never in base-to-base contact, the kroxigors can't be attacked/wounded this round.
2) Two wounds are re-rolled against the Kroxigors Toughness.
3a) Two wounds are re-rolled as if the attacks hadn't been made yet; except they're rolled against the Kroxigors' weapons skill and any hits are rolled to wound against the Kroxigor toughness.
3b) The attacking army rolls one die at a time to see if it hits and then one more to see if it wounds. Once a Kroxigor steps forward, the attacker can begin attacking the Kroxigors.


I argue that the extra wounds are lost in the same way they would be lost if you had models attacking a single character or unit champion. Any additional wounds done to those models would be lost (ignore overkill in a challenge for our purpose). Since the Kroxigors weren't able to be attacked during that initiative step it is not possible to hit and wound them until the following close combat phase.


How would you play this and why?

 

[Bibamus]

couldn't have said it better.

as long as you can only attack skinks, you can only kill skinks. as long as the I is the same in the attacking unit all attacks are made at the same time.


edit:
on topic: all skinks dead, at least 1 krox alive in the unit, i cast regrowth. assuming krox has full wounds do i rezz another krox or skinks?
can i rezz skinks if only a krox are left?

2nd scenario: pit of shades/purple sun/ etc. kills all the krox and only skinks are left. can i rezz krox with regrowth?

 

[Benny6Toes]

couldn't have said it better.

as long as you can only attack skinks, you can only kill skinks. as long as the I is the same in the attacking unit all attacks are made at the same time.


edit:
on topic: all skinks dead, at least 1 krox alive in the unit, i cast regrowth. assuming krox has full wounds do i rezz another krox or skinks?
can i rezz skinks if only a krox are left?

2nd scenario: pit of shades/purple sun/ etc. kills all the krox and only skinks are left. can i rezz krox with regrowth?

That's what I thought, but a buddy insisted he should be able to roll the dice one at a time (despite the initiative argument). Glad I had it right thought.

As to your questions:
all skinks dead, at least 1 krox alive in the unit, i cast regrowth. assuming krox has full wounds do i rezz another krox or skinks?
Regrowth says wounds are regained in the following, specific order:
1) Champion
2) Musician
3) Surviving multi-wound rank-and-file models are fully healed to starting value (in this case, Kroxigors, but yours was already at starting value)
4) Dead rank-and-file models in the following order:
4a) Multi-wound rank-and-file models, one at a time, healing it to full starting value before moving to the next
4b) Single-wound rank-and-file models

So you'd get your Krox back after any command group skinks, and if there were any wounds left over, then you'd start getting your other skinks back.

But here is a downside: I think any revived Kroxigors would have to go into the front rank with the skinks. It says models must be returned to the front rank until it is at least five-wide, but after the command group comes back you have to bring back Kroxigors first, putting them int he front rank. Crummy.

can i rezz skinks if only a krox are left?
Yes.

pit of shades/purple sun/ etc. kills all the krox and only skinks are left. can i rezz krox with regrowth?
I don't see why not. you'd have to put them in the rear rank, but I think they would immediately move back to the second rank due to the Spawn Kin rule (Army Book overrides BRB).

 

[pgarfunkle]

Hi all,

I had a similar thing crop up in a game last night with my slann and temple guard versus an Elf lord on a Griffin.

The Lord and Griffin killed all the temple guard between their normal attacks and the thunderstomp attacks however there was a wound left over which my opponent argued should be allocated to the Slann. I thought not but didn't argue at the time as the Slann was likely to flee at that point and we were wrapping up the game.

Is this the same as the example with the Krox and Skinks or does this work differently?

(I also realised I was a bit foolish by not issuing a challenge with my champion as it would have prevented much dying).

Also in a slightly different example if the Lord and the Griffin killed the Temple Guard, I assume that the Slann would then have to move into base to base? Is that correct?

Thanks for your thoughts

 

[strewart]

Yep its like the krox, the wound shouldn't have transferred over. He can't target the Slann until it is in base contact. That should not be anything special; any characters in units will not take carry over wounds from the dead unit, they must be attacked seperately. Of course, the slann can't be targetted until the unit is dead.

And yes, once the TG are dead the Slann moves into base contact straight away. In fact, even if there is just 1 TG left the Slann must move forward since the second/third rank cannot be wider than the first rank, which occurs when there is only 1 TG left and the Slann behind him.

 

[pgarfunkle]

Hi Strewart,

Thanks for the reply, so the in the second example when exactly would the Slann be moved? After all models at the initiative that killed the temple guard have finished attacking and before the next level of initiative or at the end of the combat?

Thanks

 

[BEEGfrog]

Because of the step forward rule, he would step forward after the initiative step where the TG were killed. I.e. he would be a valid HtH target the initiative round after the TG were eliminated.

 

[pgarfunkle]

Thanks Beegfrog,

Thats what I thought but always helps to check.