8th Ed. What we fear...

maybe its just my run of bad luck against them.

 

I'm going out to get a few games in. Hopefully I don't get paired with Vampire Counts so I can gain some intel on a different race for a change.

I hope there is a Bretonia, Empire, or Dwarf player there since I've never played against those races.

I'll report back in after I kill a few warmbloods...

 

This was my aproach as well untill yesterday. My ancient steg with skink hero got destroyed round 2 by 25 scouting dark-elves with x-bows (shades) and a lore of metal wielding sorceress. I love the guy but he is hard to keep alive.

 

So I went to my local game store last night all pumped up to play with a bunch of freshly painted models and to utilize all of the tactics that I have been reading and preaching. No one was there accept my buddy with his Vampire Counts. We have probably played over 50 games against one another and know each others tactics, and are a little tired of playing against one another. The only reason we go to this store is to play other races. However, no one showed up. There was only 40k players, a few guys playing Magic, and a few guys playing Talisman. We didn't play, and just went home.

What I fear: No one is playing fantasy in my area anymore. Everyone is playing 40k. I fear that I have all of this money and time in these models and only one guy to play against. Damn 40k. I feel that I have to play in tournaments just to play at all. Hopefully I can sucker some of my other friends into getting into the game...

Sorry for the ranting, I was really geared up to play. Ok! Back to tactics talk!

 

I know the feeling, I only seem to play a Dark Elf player (Which has no gone and joined the army so I have no one now) It's so frustrating cause everyone plays 40K takes me months just to convince someone to dig out there fantasy army >.<

From my experience hydra's were nasty, took me a while to take down. Sadly not much experience with my Lizards only high elves.

 

Then play in lots of tournaments! You'll face different people, different armies and make yourself a better player.

I notice a lot of people fear the vampire deathstar units with regen banner. One way to deal with that is to bog it down, but another is to direct your attacks at the banner. Many people seem to want to either attack the unit, or the main character and forget about the bsb with the drakenhoff banner etc. Take him ouit and it's a lot harder for the VC's, and you killed a 100pt banner.

 

My army isn't up to scratch for tournaments at the moments, I don't really want my first game with Lizardmen to be at one :/

 

I have signed up for a few tournaments just to get some games in. Seems a little wrong to me but anyway back to the topic.

Skaven: Grey Seer with Power Scroll and the Thirteenth spell. At first I wasn't too worried about this combo because I take becalming cogitation which doesn't negate the power scroll but it helps bring his dice roll down. I thought that you had to make the casting value, in order for it to go off with irreversible force, like Teclis I think. I couldn't find the exact wording that laid it out and the 3 guys I was playing against said that they don't need to make the casting value. So for a spell that can basically be auto cast with 6 dice, and will wipe out a slann and temple guard unit, and you can't do anything about it, I fear this auto win for the skaven and makes me almost want to take lore of death instead of like so I have a chance to kill the grey seer. I hate those rats.

Skaven: Storm banner... I play a lot of skinks and salamanders and chameleons. When I come up against a skaven player with this banner it almost means a auto win for the rats, as 90% of my army can't do anything. Did I mention I don't like rats.

For every weakness, they have an item or ability that makes up for it. I might have to change to death magic to pick off those two combos that really hurt, but I feel that my army will suffer against other races. I did tell my friend who plays vampire counts that I wouldn't take death magic because it wouldn't be fair. After he read the spells... he agreed.

If anyone knows the details of the power scroll thing with meeting the casting value and stuff I would like a reference. Or should I just suck it up and cry when my skaven opponents say the word "Power Scroll."

 

Try the Feed back scroll and/or the blood statue of spite.

 

For me, it definitely depends on the opponent more than the army they are playing. That being said, Dark Elves present the biggest challenge for me with their combination of shooting and hard hitting units. I rely heavily on my magic when I play with my Lizardmen, so if I have bad magic phases, then it can spell trouble against better players. I like the Lore of Light because it allows me the chance to hit the Hydras with S6 magic missiles that negate the regen save and use Net to discourage shooting and the other spell that decreases their chance of hitting me (the name escapes me at the moment).

VC are especially weak to the Lore of Light thanks to its bonus against them, and haven't seemed anywhere near as bad as they were in 7th. It is also a very magic-dependent army, so things like Becalming Cogitation help a lot. Still, in the hands of a good player, using Van Hel's, raising units and getting Spirit Hosts with WInds of Undeath can make life hard on you.

Skaven have the potential to be very dangerous with their current book in 8th, but the HPA is countered like the hydra by Burning Gaze, and messing with their movement by discouraging/stopping it with Net and increasing your own with Time Warp can help a lot. Still, it you are facing multiple Furnaces, HPAs and a Bell withg hundreds of slaves to tarpit your combat units, things can get rough. Thankfully the Storm Banner usually only lasts a few turns at most, so your shooting isn't likely to be permanently impaired (though Howling Warpgale can still cause minor headaches for Skinks by negating their poison by requiring over a 6 to hit).

 

Dreaded 13th is definately an annoyance. I run a block of 60 saurus for my slann to hide in (yes 60, 3k games). that normally helps with things like that. As far as the screaming bell/plague furnace is concerned, ive had luck with the death spell that makes a model take a LD test on its own unmodified LD. the bell/furnace actually counts as its own model (per their rulebook) and has a LD of 0 (per FAQ). so with a slann having a LD of 9 base and the max score of 6 (LD 0 + 6 on a d6) for the bell/furnace, you'll be doing a minimum of 4 wounds (LD 9 + 1 on a d6) each casting of the spell. I've also ran a skrox horde (5 krox and 80 ? skinks) into a plague furnace horde. you'll def need your BSB close for the ensuing skink massacre but those krox do wonders against the furnace/priest.

 

Unless they are running a Power Scroll, I find that Curse of the Horned Rat/Dreaded 13th is very effectively countered by Becalming Cogitation. As for using Spirit Leech, that trick only works if the Grey Seer/Plague Priest has been taken out already, and remember both have MR2 giving the Bell an impressive 2+ Ward (and the Furnace still having a 5+ ward) against the wounds inflicted by magic.

The Furnace is a nightmare to deal with for most units in combat. It does not have an armor or ward save against shooting though, so the Skink Jungle Poisons is probably the best way to deal with it (provided they don't have Storm Banner/Howling Warp Gale/Shadow Magnet Trinket up negating the poison by requiring a roll >6 to hit).

 

at Viarca:

All of the skaven guys in my area play with the power scroll because it pretty much lets them auto cast the 13th spell killing whatever the most expensive unit on the board is. Becalming Cogitation doesn't help, unless they roll all 6's, that would be funny. Everyone also runs the storm banner, its too good for 50 pts not to take, so as I said, everyone takes it. Darts against the grey seer and bell are good, but you still have to randomize, and not a guarantee. There was some other stuff I was thinking about, but forgot...

 

at Arll:

I thought that they had to meet the casting value too, however, my opponent said that he didn't and I frantically searched the rule book and the FAQ and couldn't find it anywhere. If you have a page number for reference I would appreciate it. However, I believe that the wording on the scroll is different than what you think. I would really like some evidence to rub in the face of that rat player, however, I think I'm out of luck. Help is appreciated as always.

 

by the way, I think the casting of the 13th spell is a 25+.

 

The Storm Banner is pretty common around my area as well, but it usually disrupts one or two shooting phases at most since they need to roll for it every player turn (including their own) after its activation. Those one or two phases can definitely hurt though.

The Power Scroll, to my knowledge anyway, does not need to meet the minimum casting value to cause irresistable force and a miscast. Its just like the normal irresistable force with double 6s, so long as a double of any kind is present, it goes off whether the dice total is sufficient to successfully cast without it or not (p33, BRB). It's a great item for Skaven who can afford to have a Grey Seer taking it and another Lord choice (even another Grey Seer, though I've never see this work well in practice) as their general. But, it's one of those things you can't do much about and just have to hope they don't roll high on their 4D6. And yes, the casting value for the Curse of the Horned Rat/Dreaded 13th is 25+.

Skaven are one of those armies that can just be ridiculous in the wrong hands. I recently played against a list that had 2 Furnaces, a Screaming Bell, a HPA and ~175 Slaves (in 4 units) held up by a Warlord general and a BSB at 2500 points. The army had almost 300 models and was perfectly legal with exactly 625 points of core. To make things worse, the HPA came back twice (once with 5 wounds, the second time with 2... the third time it was just a single rat swarm thankfully). I was playing VC, not Lizardmen, but my unit of 5 Blood Knights failed to restrain on a frenzied charge, failed their charge, and then got charged by one of the Furnaces. They never even had to take impact hits thanks to two separate sets of toughness tests that caused a combined six wounds forced by the Furnace and the Plague Censer the Priest was carrying. The VC didn't end up doing too badly thanks to getting consistently decent rolls on my magic phase that allowed me to make lots of speed bumps and get off VHDM, but it was kind of exasperating to have my best unit get tied up in Slaves for 4 turns, the Blood Knights die without ever doing anything, and then have to rely on Ghouls and Zombies to manage enough points to scrape out a minor victoy.

 

I understand about the MR2 on the bell, spirit leech isnt a practical way to get rid of the bell. But only a 5+ ward for the furnace makes it still worth a try. 66% you'll be causing 6 wounds (assuming they roll a 6 for their D6, which is a stretch), and averages say they'll save 2. Its also a fairly cheap spell to cast, so you can wait out those dispel dice for a better chance to cast. I also had some success with some chameleons. Being able to pick them out of the unit is very valuable. Had 1 little guy take off the last wound on a furnace, next turn the last wound on a cannon, and the next turn the 2 wounds on an engineer. quite funny considering he cast the 13th on that unit but only managed to get 9. unlucky for him but i'll take it.