8th Ed. wood elfs about to be updated, thoughts?

intervening units count as a hard cover only if they obscure the LOS to the majority of the target.
i dont think skink block the LOS at all to the saurus at all.. being so stunty and all.
p.41 RB

 

And that's why I hate true line of sight...
If you add some high grass to the bases of the skirmishers it works all the time... but I think you most of the time can claim hardcover, at the very least force a roll-off since it won't be crystal clear line of sight.

I don't even see how to calculate the percentage in cover and not? It's pretty advanced math if you would go down the scientific road...

 

I wonder if COC will do a lot of what we need? Close ground quickly and 4xS4 attacks each is more than enough to massacre unarmoured elves when they get there. Even against bodkins, which do not come cheap, short range shooting kills 1 COC for every 7 elves shooting.

I have a small game against them this evening, and while I don't have COC to test, I'm looking closely at the Bastilodon for flaming and a potential -1BS. The wording there is key; -1 to hit would be ignored by the trueshot arrows, -1BS isn't.

Engine is also looking good for the ward, difficulty they have killing high strength and burning alignment's ability to kill multiple small, squishy units that avoid charge zones, like their scouts/light cav. I expect my Krox and skirmishers to be massacred though.

The skink screen may not work for saurus, but salamanders look like they'll be deadly if they can close the ground. Perfect candidate for a sacrifical skirmish screen.

 

I'm pretty sure a block of skinks in front of a block of saurus obscures enough of the saurus block to give them hard cover.

Assuming you're attempting to see straight through one block into the other.

 

Nope; Waywatchers. They make Saurus Cav even more of a liability than they are now. If I was playing Wood Elves, I'd prioritise any Saurus Cav with my Waywatchers for exactly the reasons that you mentioned.

I think that the real ticket is going to be Terradons, Ripperdactyls and Salamanders.

 

With all the forests forcing dangerous terrain, core chariots and cavalry stars are in serious trouble. What about special stegadons without upgrades? Elves don't like s5 thunderstomps .

Also, using chameleons to counter scout waywatchers.

 

The baby Steg might not be a bad shout, because it combines the two things that are the best counter to Wood Elf shooting: high Toughness and lots of Wounds. Plus always Stubborn, so who cares about those forests?

The downside is that you still have to catch them. Being able to March is good; not getting Swiftstride is bad.

 

Bastiladons. T5 2+ armor. And a laser. They brought a bow to a Laser fight? Couple with a life/high magic slann for the healing and the wood elf player will by crying.

-Matt

 

Yeah, he'll also do.

I'm increasingly leaning towards Heavens on Skinks over Beasts - Curse of the Midnight Wind, Iceshard Blizzard, Comet, etc; these are all things Wood Elves will not like.

 

Lessons from my 1500pt game last night:

1) On all-comers lists, expect lots of poison. It seems Hagbane is going to be on a lot, with maybe a starfire scouts to remove regen from destruction. Even 40 poisoned, AP shots will drop an ancient steg in pretty short order. At least my engine got a 4+/6+; baby steg's going to be on 5+ saves

2) I clearly overreacted to the Trueshot option. He didn't have any, and it will be a minority in general lists if Hagbane is as effective as it seems. This makes T2/3 skirmishers less of a writeoff than I was expecting.

3) Salamanders scare wood elves, but need a skink screen as they will be a prime target. Getting into range is still tricky, as 30" bows and a tendency to back off a few inches each turn is going to hurt your ability to get optimal shots off, and it may be a case of trying long shots wherever the opportunity presents

4) Shadow Magic, Miasma, Withering, Pit. Even Pendulum complements their S3 shooting well. So...yeh.

5) Lore of heavens over Lore of Beasts on Skink. I went beasts because I though trueshot would make iceshard irrelevant, but in Hagbane makes T5 irrelevant instead. Give yourself a chance at the comet, or Curse of the Midnight wind to cripple poison reliance.

6) You need to be killing elves early. They can outshoot you, have skirmish and/or soft cover everywhere, but they hate magic missiles. Burning Alignment drew the scroll turn 1. Flock of Doom was, for once, not useless, and the laser fried waywatchers nicely even on low - Bastilodon was definitely my MVP, soaking up waywatcher fire and even flattening fragile, T3 Elves in combat. These are invaluable against WE, I'd strongly consider taking 2 in a tailored list. I had 3 magic missiles/direct damage in my list and, after the salamander, they were the main threat I could offer. Ruby ring of ruin, High Slann with Soul Quench or even a fire slann all fit with this.


I do still wonder about CoC; those waywatchers are going to be shooting something any way you cut it, and they're still wounding on 5+, before any buffs you apply. Wyssans makes 6+ to wound, Cursed wind makes them reroll half their successful wounds, any number of -1 to hit hexes can help out here, Engine gives a 6+ ward (and cav can scren the engine) and, all that aside, Waywatchers are unquestionably #1 on target list for fireballs or camo skinks. the alternative is to not bring any armour at all, at which point they switch to BS5, AP multi-shot and mow down skinks and terradons.

Troglodon is a bit of a push in any list, but maybe here..? S/T5 is at no disadvantage at all, they're fast, can channel for another chance of a 3+ bound magic missile, and give you an arcane vessal which can't be sniped in turn 1 by a waywatcher hero...problem is, it costs you Salamanders or your Engine.


The first time Kroak + strategically placed flying priest gets a decent magic phase against Wood Elves could be funny as well!

 

Have you played against 40 true flight glade guard yet? It's horrendous

D

 

30 with Double Shot buffed every round with IF Hand of Glory :/

 

I just played a 1500 point game against them, I won, but it was mostly luck.

I had Tetto + Scroll with 2x24 Saurus and 2 Salamanders plus some skinks and an Oldblood Cowboy.

He had Level 4 with Shadow, BSB w/ Hail of Doom, 10 Waywatchers, 6 Wild Riders, 5 Glade Riders, GG with Trueflight, and then a bunch of min-scouts with hagbane.

Going in, I was terrified of the Wild Riders and the Waywatchers, he got Miasma, Wither, Pit, and Occams.

Brief Summary:

It started horribly, shot both sallys off turn one with everything he had, I scrolled pit. He whittles down my saurus blocks, kills all my chaff. Cowboy is reduced to Wild Rider defense so they cant charge Tetto and so he can avoid the waywatchers.

Turn 3, I drop a comet on his head, wipe out all the waywatchers and half the Trueflights. In return he drops 14 Saurus in a pit. Hail of Doom picks up 8 Saurus.

Uranons + Bunker javs picks up the wild rider unit.

End of the game I have my cowboy and Tetto + bunker, killed his last scout on turn 6.

Things I learned

1) Waywatchers are terrifying, they killed 4 saurus a turn easy are a damn hard to pin down. NEVER charge them with small cavalry units, their stand and shoot might wipe of the whole unit (killed 6 Saurus).

2) The whole army is super weak to magic missiles, that comet saved me the game by itself.

3) Miasma on movement plus the 5-man scouts meant I never got anything I combat I wanted to

My opponent had a fairly brilliant strategy with his list that I feel will become fairly standard once it catches on.

Its pretty clear that after WE hit min core, glade guard are much worse than Scouts: 1 point gives scout and skirmisher, and allows smaller units.

So his one unit of glade guard acted as a bunker for his BSB and shadow caster with trueflight arrows. All his scouts with hagbanes deployed not behind me (they had room to) but in his free wood at the table half.

This gave him 4 redirectors that had poison shots, and started at short range, so they all hit on 4's almost every turn. His Bunker was shooting at long range, through trees and units, and at skirmishers, hitting on 3's. So he used it to clear skinks while the scouts hit my saurus. Any turn he got Withering off he focused all his shooting on that unit.

This Trueflight GG behind Hagbane Scouts is IMO going to become the standard loadout for infantry shooting in WE (plus waywatchers of course).

 

=> At least when GW releases the FAQ (ha, yeah right) this may get minimized by allowing only one appearance of each arrow type.

 

Sorry Sleb, but I dont think that will happen. If it does GW is the stupidest bunch of apes on the planet. I'm not a WE player myself but the idea of them nurfing the arrows to only one unit per army is probably the worst idea. EVER. This totally limits the usefulness of the one thing that WE have going for them. Otherwise they would be too generalistic to work properly

 

This is a tough one.

The RAW argument has a lot of weight behind it.

That being said, Ben Curry favours the RAI approach that multiples are allowed, and seeing as that man probably has his name in the book like he does for the others, I'm inclined to go with him on this one. Not to say that he is some sort of Rules Oracle or officially licensed by GW, but its about as close as we'll get until an FAQ comes out.

 

I have an idea with how to handle all the (stand in forest) rules for woodies.

Make our skirmishers to foresters.

+2 points per model: add chain saw….

 

Honestly i think there is a lot of validity to the idea that "repeating is allowed", is actually a RAW approach as well.

Unlike PF working in multiple ranks, for this specific issue i think both sides can pretty safely argue from a RAW perspective without getting too much into the intent.

Chris Taylor is also listed as a playtester for the wood elves book, and he commented on the warhammer.org.uk thread that he would bring multiples and has yet to have any type of complaint.

Considering i imagine he was partially doing his playtesting under the eye of GW (as he's credited in the book), that also seems to be something that should be at least noted.

Regardless i'd really hate to derail this thread into a rules debate!

I've yet to play against the new wood elves (my pool of opponents is fairly limited) but at the very least they seem like an interesting opponent. A lot of interesting aspects (like adding woods) and specialized models.