AoS Second Edition

[Aginor]

Have you seen the new exclusive Endless spells for SCE?
Especially the comet.

That is exactly why people hate Stormcast.
They exclusively get this spell which is easy to cast, has much better range (double!) than any other endless spell (so no risk of using it and only a Slann could unbind it at all), doing a lot of damage in a huge area, and it is the only endless spell to trigger its second damage before the enemy can do anything (before the start of the battle round).

Imagine you are playing an army that has squishy heroes with only 4-5 wounds and you don't go first. The enemy is SCE and has a wizard and a Celestant Prime.
That basically means that _at least_ one of your heroes is going to suffer a minimum of four wounds, bubble wrapping won't help you either.
No tactic needed by your opponent, not even careful placement of his units. The only thing he has to do is roll a six using two dice, (which is a chance better than 50%) and one or more of your heroes will very likely just die.
If a wound is still missing he just moves his Celestant Prime into range (24" and no line of sight required, no way to defend against it) and adds another d3 mortal wounds.

That's not how you design a game. Someone should tell them. That's not even fun for the people playing it.

And yes I am aware that Kroak's spells also fall into that category.

We need less of that crap, not more. It isn't a game if only one person rolls dice and the other cannot react and just loses.

Does anyone know the points for that spell already? I hope it isn't cheaper than 120 points so at least it doesn't become an auto include.

...and I hope SCE don't get one-drop bataillons with wizards in their Battletome.

 

[Canas]

Have you seen the new exclusive Endless spells for SCE?
Especially the comet.

That is exactly why people hate Stormcast.
They exclusively get this spell which is easy to cast, has much better range (double!) than any other endless spell (so no risk of using it and only a Slann could unbind it at all), doing a lot of damage in a huge area, and it is the only endless spell to trigger its second damage before the enemy can do anything (before the start of the battle round).

Imagine you are playing an army that has squishy heroes with only 4-5 wounds and you don't go first. The enemy is SCE and has a wizard and a Celestant Prime.
That basically means that _at least_ one of your heroes is going to suffer a minimum of four wounds, bubble wrapping won't help you either.
No tactic needed by your opponent, not even careful placement of his units. The only thing he has to do is roll a six using two dice, (which is a chance better than 50%) and one or more of your heroes will very likely just die.
If a wound is still missing he just moves his Celestant Prime into range (24" and no line of sight required, no way to defend against it) and adds another d3 mortal wounds.

That's not how you design a game. Someone should tell them. That's not even fun for the people playing it.

And yes I am aware that Kroak's spells also fall into that category.

We need less of that crap, not more. It isn't a game if only one person rolls dice and the other cannot react and just loses.

Does anyone know the points for that spell already? I hope it isn't cheaper than 120 points so at least it doesn't become an auto include.

...and I hope SCE don't get one-drop bataillons with wizards in their Battletome.

Kroak at least has some drawbacks in between it requiring Kroak to get into harm's way & the increasing casting value (plus it's more difficult to cast with a shorter range and less reliable damage, even if you ignore those drawbacks...)

But yeah, it's rather a perfect example of the OP-ness of the SCE. And probably they'l still end up not being able to curbstomp in tournaments as they'l eventually get their wizard assasinated during the first turn by a shadowstrike host or some such and drop out of the running. Leaving them in this weird OP yet somehow not winning tournaments limbo.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Not long to wait now .........

What for? 2nd Edition itself?

...for more Stormcast.

 

[Aginor]

...for more Stormcast.

I know this must be great and funny for you, but you are not helping.


@all

I am trying to maintain an optimistic point of view since I see so many things that are done a lot better by GW than by the "old GW" of 2015 and 2016.
Hell, our own army will probably be one of the best in this edition of the game again.

Probably we will see new endless spells being released for all the major factions by the end of the year and all of them will be as "good" as that one. (With good I mean strong, not good for the game in this case).

But man, GW isn't making that easy for us. Yes, it was to be expected that a new edition would start with SCE again, and due to power creep of course the new stuff is better than the old stuff, but.... I really don't see why the faction specific spells have to be that much stronger than the ones everyone has, especially if half of the armies will probably never get their onw ones so they will be stuck with the generic ones forever.

*sigh*

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I know this must be great and funny for you, but you are not helping.

When do I ever help? I am an agent of Chaos. I sow mistrust and unrest. I am the darkness, I am the shadows.


I want MORE Stormcast!

 

[Crowsfoot]

I know this must be great and funny for you, but you are not helping.


@all

I am trying to maintain an optimistic point of view since I see so many things that are done a lot better by GW than by the "old GW" of 2015 and 2016.
Hell, our own army will probably be one of the best in this edition of the game again.

Probably we will see new endless spells being released for all the major factions by the end of the year and all of them will be as "good" as that one. (With good I mean strong, not good for the game in this case).

But man, GW isn't making that easy for us. Yes, it was to be expected that a new edition would start with SCE again, and due to power creep of course the new stuff is better than the old stuff, but.... I really don't see why the faction specific spells have to be that much stronger than the ones everyone has, especially if half of the armies will probably never get their onw ones so they will be stuck with the generic ones forever.

*sigh*

I actually think that the spell is not over powered, it can't move so you just need to keep your units apart our out of the 36" range, pretty easy to unbind with any wizard that has modifiers.

I sort of get what they are doing they are making magic big impact and that make the games faster and more immersive, I actually think Seraphon have gained the most from what I have seen of AOS2, Kroak and Rippers unbound and lethal, yes they become the norm but not in friendly games and I don't play tournaments.

 

[Aginor]

so you just need to keep your units apart our out of the 36" range, pretty easy to unbind with any wizard that has modifiers.

I am not so sure about that...
If they go first you cannot do anything against it. You cannot move away your troops since it isn't your turn, the SCE player will put his wizard into a remote corner on setup (the spell doesn't need line of sight) so the wizard will be out of range.
Keep in mind that the range is not only 36", that thing has a TEN inch blast radius!

We as Seraphon might be lucky (at least if we bring a Slann) but everyone else is screwed. In case of the SCE player going second the 5" secondary damage also triggers before the other player's turn even starts.

....hmmm not sure yet. Still thinking about it.

 

[Crowsfoot]

I am not so sure about that...
If they go first you cannot do anything against it. You cannot move away your troops since it isn't your turn, the SCE player will put his wizard into a remote corner on setup (the spell doesn't need line of sight) so the wizard will be out of range.
Keep in mind that the range is not only 36", that thing has a TEN inch blast radius!

We as Seraphon might be lucky (at least if we bring a Slann) but everyone else is screwed. In case of the SCE player going second the 5" secondary damage also triggers before the other player's turn even starts.

....hmmm not sure yet. Still thinking about it.

Just make sure you go first

 

[Canas]

I am not so sure about that...
If they go first you cannot do anything against it. You cannot move away your troops since it isn't your turn, the SCE player will put his wizard into a remote corner on setup (the spell doesn't need line of sight) so the wizard will be out of range.
Keep in mind that the range is not only 36", that thing has a TEN inch blast radius!

We as Seraphon might be lucky (at least if we bring a Slann) but everyone else is screwed. In case of the SCE player going second the 5" secondary damage also triggers before the other player's turn even starts.

....hmmm not sure yet. Still thinking about it.

Imho the main issue this spell has is it's massive range & the lack of sight requirements, the damage is actually surprsingly normal (per target..). But thanks to the range an SCE player can now very easily use it to snipe key squishy heroes without any sort of counterplay by just continuously casting and dispelling the spell each turn. Armies build around say several skink heroes supporting it with key-buffs will easily be blasted apart seeing as they have low wounds and no ward save.

The only other real use it has would be to deny an objective. But that's slightly less problematic as the continious damage isn't too terrible. Sturdier stuff or things with a ward-save will still be able to hold on to the objective even without dispelling the spell.

 

[Axquirix]

Have you seen the new exclusive Endless spells for SCE?
Especially the comet.

That is exactly why people hate Stormcast.
They exclusively get this spell which is easy to cast, has much better range (double!) than any other endless spell (so no risk of using it and only a Slann could unbind it at all), doing a lot of damage in a huge area, and it is the only endless spell to trigger its second damage before the enemy can do anything (before the start of the battle round).

Imagine you are playing an army that has squishy heroes with only 4-5 wounds and you don't go first. The enemy is SCE and has a wizard and a Celestant Prime.
That basically means that _at least_ one of your heroes is going to suffer a minimum of four wounds, bubble wrapping won't help you either.
No tactic needed by your opponent, not even careful placement of his units. The only thing he has to do is roll a six using two dice, (which is a chance better than 50%) and one or more of your heroes will very likely just die.
If a wound is still missing he just moves his Celestant Prime into range (24" and no line of sight required, no way to defend against it) and adds another d3 mortal wounds.

That's not how you design a game. Someone should tell them. That's not even fun for the people playing it.

And yes I am aware that Kroak's spells also fall into that category.

We need less of that crap, not more. It isn't a game if only one person rolls dice and the other cannot react and just loses.

Does anyone know the points for that spell already? I hope it isn't cheaper than 120 points so at least it doesn't become an auto include.

...and I hope SCE don't get one-drop bataillons with wizards in their Battletome.

What's got my trousers in a twist is that it's a giant comet. Y'know, a space rock. Which is entirely our army's theme and not their army's theme. They get thunder and lightning, we get starlight and space rocks, that was the whole idea. And it's only castable by their wizards, of course, so we can't even pick it from their list as an ally and cast it ourselves.
Giving -1 to hit infantry heroes near healthy units and then dropping this is just favouritism. "No worries Seraphon, now your vital buffing heroes are more survivable! Except against SCE, who can hit all of them at once on turn one and probably kill them. Oh, and it penalises your casting rolls as well."

 

[pendrake]

The enemy is SCE and has a wizard and a Celestant Prime.

If ‘The Aginor Analysis’ is correct the only thing to do is fight fire with fire and comet with comet. Add a SCE Wizard and CP to your own Army.

Which is entirely our army's theme and not their army's theme.

To be fair: Sigmar has always had a twin-tailed comet as part of his schtick.

In WFB 6,7,8 about 3/4s of the armies had access to the Comet Spell.

....is that it's a giant comet. Y'know, a space rock.

The thing that bugs me is that a 10 inch blast radius is no such thing as a space rock (it's not even a micro comet, nor a cometary fragment) a teensy comet takes out the entire table that you are gaming on, and 25 adjacent tables in the ballroom you were playing in.

A ten inch radius, scaled up to 1:1 scale, is only a 100 foot diameter circle.

100 foot circle is a bit less area than a 500lb Mk82 Bomb. Orders of magnitude smaller than any possible comet.

 

[little-myth]

Looks like comet will give a hard time, I wonder if my regular opponent will start including it because he has taken a liking to SCE now. Going to be a repeat of history, will have to consult my local GW manager for advice

 

[Aginor]

Looks like comet will give a hard time, I wonder if my regular opponent will start including it because he has taken a liking to SCE now. Going to be a repeat of history, will have to consult my local GW manager for advice

I think it will depend a lot on the points. If it is 60 or below it is probably an auto include for many lists.

 

[Killer Angel]

Have you seen the new exclusive Endless spells for SCE?
Especially the comet.

That is exactly why people hate Stormcast.

And each knight Incantor can, once per battle, automatically unbind a spell without even roll the dices.

 

[Wazz]

@pendrake to be even more fair, we were all about the twin tailed comet before sigmar stole it from Sotek! Lmao.
That comet is pretty good. But we can unbind it and unless they get the double turn just lol and walk away from it or teleport away. Maybe leave a Bastiladon in range to laugh at the mortal wounds with its save? The comet hurts their models too right?

 

[Aginor]

And each knight Incantor can, once per battle, automatically unbind a spell without even roll the dices.

Yeah, but so can others, that alone isn't too severe IMO.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Yeah, but so can others, that alone isn't too severe IMO.

Indeed, Fyreslayers can, if I'm right in that the same artefact can be used on multiple characters, give as many of their heroes Ash Plume Sigils as they want, so that each one can unbind a spell once per game.

Additionally we could take an allied Runelord or two to be especially mean.

They don't have it all in Azyr...

 

[Wazz]

Dread is up. 40 points to summon. With some luck you could do that by turn 3! Lol

 

[Wazz]

@Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl there is also the one where you can unbind one spell per turn realm relic. Use it on a magma tunneling Runesmiter, your like 99% going to in range to unbind. Sure you have to roll, but it usable more than once. Take 2 one with the Ash Plume for even more awesome! (For you lol)

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

@Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl there is also the one where you can unbind one spell per turn realm relic. Use it on a magma tunneling Runesmiter, your like 99% going to in range to unbind. Sure you have to roll, but it usable more than once. Take 2 one with the Ash Plume for even more awesome! (For you lol)

Nice! I didn't think of that - although this one is realm-specific. Which realm?