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Even the tallest and proudest of mountains are eroded over time... I'm joining AoS

Lizards of Renown said:
Not to stir the proverbial s**t but @NIGHTBRINGER what specifically is it about the SCE that you dislike?
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I'll try to keep this short(ish).

It all starts off with Space Marines. I understand that Space Marines are GW's top sellers and as a consequence they will receive more company support/attention. However, I think 40k is completely over-saturated with Space Marines to an absolutely ridiculous level. At this point roughly half of all armies are some variant of Space Marines. Space Marines receive a constant supply of new models and they are plastered everywhere, while other armies are neglected and left to rot. Furthermore, the general lore/fluff is dominated by them as well. I started my miniature hobby with 40k and tired and completely disenchanted by Space Marines. For that and other reasons, I transitioned over to Fantasy.

Enter SCE. At least Space Marines are somewhat original, while SCE are nothing more than cheap knockoffs (hence they were nicknamed Sigmarines right from the start). The second I saw them I knew that they were going to be GW's fantasy variant of SM, with all the over-saturation mentioned above. Sure enough, for the first couple of years of AoS we saw virtually nothing but SCE (and Khorne I suppose). It got to the point that even die hard AoS fans were getting fed up with them. While things seem to be better now (thankfully!), the level of GW support is still massively skewed. We don't see model support (outside of terrain) for Lizardmen/Seraphon. Beautiful armies like Tomb Kings and Bretonnia are abandoned. All the while, a copy of an already over-represented faction is thrust down the throats of hobbyists.


That... and I don't like those oversized shoulder pads (on SM and SCE). The poor bastards wouldn't even be able to move properly with those dis-proportioned things. That's just personal aesthetic preference though :p. IMHO they look a bit tacky.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
I'll try to keep this short(ish).

It all starts off with Space Marines. I understand that Space Marines are GW's top sellers and as a consequence they will receive more company support/attention. However, I think 40k is completely over-saturated with Space Marines to an absolutely ridiculous level. At this point roughly half of all armies are some variant of Space Marines. Space Marines receive a constant supply of new models and they are plastered everywhere, while other armies are neglected and left to rot. Furthermore, the general lore/fluff is dominated by them as well. I started my miniature hobby with 40k and tired and completely disenchanted by Space Marines. For that and other reasons, I transitioned over to Fantasy.

Enter SCE. At least Space Marines are somewhat original, while SCE are nothing more than cheap knockoffs (hence they were nicknamed Sigmarines right from the start). The second I saw them I knew that they were going to be GW's fantasy variant of SM, with all the over-saturation mentioned above. Sure enough, for the first couple of years of AoS we saw virtually nothing but SCE (and Khorne I suppose). It got to the point that even die hard AoS fans were getting fed up with them. While things seem to be better now (thankfully!), the level of GW support is still massively skewed. We don't see model support (outside of terrain) for Lizardmen/Seraphon. Beautiful armies like Tomb Kings and Bretonnia are abandoned. All the while, a copy of an already over-represented faction is thrust down the throats of hobbyists.


That... and I don't like those oversized shoulder pads (on SM and SCE). The poor bastards wouldn't even be able to move properly with those dis-proportioned things. That's just personal aesthetic preference though :p. IMHO they look a bit tacky.
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Fair enough. I have done nothing with the AOS lore or armies tbh so didn't realize that.

Funny you should mention the shoulder pads... I've always had a thing about them as I can't see that they would allow the arms to go out to the side...

Anyways, mystery solved on the SCE dislike.

"Sigmarines" (snort)

Ridiculous name.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
I'll try to keep this short(ish).

It all starts off with Space Marines. I understand that Space Marines are GW's top sellers and as a consequence they will receive more company support/attention. However, I think 40k is completely over-saturated with Space Marines to an absolutely ridiculous level. At this point roughly half of all armies are some variant of Space Marines. Space Marines receive a constant supply of new models and they are plastered everywhere, while other armies are neglected and left to rot. Furthermore, the general lore/fluff is dominated by them as well. I started my miniature hobby with 40k and tired and completely disenchanted by Space Marines. For that and other reasons, I transitioned over to Fantasy.

Enter SCE. At least Space Marines are somewhat original, while SCE are nothing more than cheap knockoffs (hence they were nicknamed Sigmarines right from the start). The second I saw them I knew that they were going to be GW's fantasy variant of SM, with all the over-saturation mentioned above. Sure enough, for the first couple of years of AoS we saw virtually nothing but SCE (and Khorne I suppose). It got to the point that even die hard AoS fans were getting fed up with them. While things seem to be better now (thankfully!), the level of GW support is still massively skewed. We don't see model support (outside of terrain) for Lizardmen/Seraphon. Beautiful armies like Tomb Kings and Bretonnia are abandoned. All the while, a copy of an already over-represented faction is thrust down the throats of hobbyists.
Click to expand...

110% this.

I’d also like to add that personally I think the new Primaris Marines are even worse than Stormcast, because they’re an army ripped off of an army that is itself ripped off of Space Marines, as they’re just Space Marines boosted up to Stormcast power level and are thus double rip-offs. Have you noticed that most of the Space Marine stuff you now see is Primaris stuff rather than bog-standard Marine stuff? I feel sorry for those original Marine players who had to buy an entire Primaris army alongside their existing collection just to be competitively viable again
 
Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
110% this.

I’d also like to add that personally I think the new Primaris Marines are even worse than Stormcast, because they’re an army ripped off of an army that is itself ripped off of Space Marines, as they’re just Space Marines boosted up to Stormcast power level and are thus double rip-offs. Have you noticed that most of the Space Marine stuff you now see is Primaris stuff rather than bog-standard Marine stuff? I feel sorry for those original Marine players who had to buy an entire Primaris army alongside their existing collection just to be competitively viable again
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Primaris are simple...
  • Space Marines are GW's best sellers
  • GW has sold millions of Space Marines over the past few decades
  • The secondary market (for example: Ebay) is flooded with Space Marines
  • The large availability of Space Marine models drives their value down as people can easily pick them up second hand
  • Second hand sales hurt GW's profit margin
  • Primaris are simply new (and better looking) Space Marines
  • People can't obtain them as readily on the secondary market, so they must turn to GW
  • GW can re-sell the updated Primaris Space Marines to everyone
  • GW makes lots of money

My personal prediction is that conventional Space Marines will eventually be phased out. It starts with getting less support, then weaker/outdated rules and finally they are retired as a "legends" army.

In all fairness, it is a smart financial move by GW, even if it sucks from a hobby perspective.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
Sadly, you guys will get many more SCE releases before that ever happens (and that is if it ever happens). :(
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To be fair, they’ve held off on that for the past year or so now and don’t seem to be intending on making any more yet (they’ve still got Lumineth and Sons of Behemat to come), but I imagine it’ll be an inevitably dreary event when it does come round :vomit:
 
Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl said:
To be fair, they’ve held off on that for the past year or so now and don’t seem to be intending on making any more yet (they’ve still got Lumineth and Sons of Behemat to come), but I imagine it’ll be an inevitably dreary event when it does come round :vomit:
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But also to be fair, they have held off of Seraphon models since well before the start of AoS (the terrain piece being the sole exception). :joyful:

Aginor said:
That's right, we haven't had SCE in quite a while. Maybe they have learned something.
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The calm before the storm? ;)
 
I'm not an exact expert on AOS having only played one game. (New to fantasy)

But, my anecdotal appraisal is that it is objectively worse than every other terrain piece in the game, and insult to injury since it's the only new model seraphon have gotten. :(
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
Primaris are simple...
  • Space Marines are GW's best sellers
  • GW has sold millions of Space Marines over the past few decades
  • The secondary market (for example: Ebay) is flooded with Space Marines
  • The large availability of Space Marine models drives their value down as people can easily pick them up second hand
  • Second hand sales hurt GW's profit margin
  • Primaris are simply new (and better looking) Space Marines
  • People can't obtain them as readily on the secondary market, so they must turn to GW
  • GW can re-sell the updated Primaris Space Marines to everyone
  • GW makes lots of money

My personal prediction is that conventional Space Marines will eventually be phased out. It starts with getting less support, then weaker/outdated rules and finally they are retired as a "legends" army.

In all fairness, it is a smart financial move by GW, even if it sucks from a hobby perspective.
Click to expand...


The "original" space marines are on their way out no doubt. They will never have a mini released for them ever again, and the books published by black Library doens't even use the word 'Primaris' to describe the Primaris marines anymore. The Primaris marines just exist to update the entire range of space marines to modern standards, but the weird thing is why did GW need to make seperate rules for the marines? They could just have said this is what marines look like now and be done with it, but no, they have to have different rules and all that while keeping the old marines on life support while the new marines are literally better in every way, both rules wise and points wise.

Aginor said:
That's right, we haven't had SCE in quite a while. Maybe they have learned something.
Click to expand...

It seems that Stormcast releases are directly tied to the development of AoS. The first wave arrived when AoS began (the dark days). The Extremis chamber opened in the realmgate wars (dragons). The Vanguard chamber opened when the first Generals handbook released (chocobo rider). The Sacrosant Chamber came with Soul Wars. So the next big thing is where the next Stormcast release will happen.
 
Captaniser said:
It seems that Stormcast releases are directly tied to the development of AoS. The first wave arrived when AoS began (the dark days). The Extremis chamber opened in the realmgate wars (dragons). The Vanguard chamber opened when the first Generals handbook released (chocobo rider). The Sacrosant Chamber came with Soul Wars. So the next big thing is where the next Stormcast release will happen.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this makes sense.
 
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