8th Ed. Rescuing Oxyotl

[Lawot]

Alright. I think Oxyotl is the coolest special character in our book - I mean, he was sucked into the Realm of Chaos, LIVED, and CAME BACK to continue the fight, and he isn't even possessed by Daemons (well, that we know of).

But his rules are both uninteresting and useless, for his points cost.

So I think it's up to us to rescue Oxyotl from oblivion, giving him rules fitting for his backstory, as well as coming up with a character that is actually playable. Obviously, this wouldn't be official in any way - I'm just looking for something interesting and balanced enough that my friends would accept him under a house rule.

Here's the question, then: how would you re-write Oxyotl's rules to reflect his story, give him a unique and useful role in a Lizardmen army, and give him a fair points value for all of that?

Here's some ideas to choose from, for starters:
- Along the lines of Gitilla da Hunta and Snagla Grobspit from the Orcs and Goblins book, give Oxyotl a unit-boosting ability:
......one unit of Chameleon Skinks may be upgraded to Oxyotl's Hunting Band. When deploying Scouts, they may either deploy as normal Scouts, or deploy out of line of sight of all enemy units, but with no minimum distance between them and the enemy.
......one unit of Chameleon Skinks may be upgraded to Oxyotl's Hunting Band. All of their attacks are poisoned on a To Hit roll of 5+.

- Make him really hard to kill, as befitting someone who has survived the Realm of Chaos:
......Many times Oxyotl's Daemonic pursuers thought him dead, only to feel the bite of his toxic darts again. If Oxyotl is killed, roll a D6 at the end of the turn in which he is killed. On a roll of a 4+ Oxyotl returns with 1W, and may be placed anywhere within 8" of the place where he was killed.

- Make him do some damage:
......Oxyotl is an expert at finding his prey's vulnerabilities - chinks in armor, soft spots in hides, vital organs - Oxyotl's shooting attacks are Armor Piercing [or have Killing Blow].
......Oxyotl's toxins are so potent, even the largest of creatures quickly succumb. Oxyotl's shooting attacks have the Multiple Wounds (D6) special rule.

- Give him some anti-Daemon abilities:
......Oxyotl, and any unit of Chameleon Skinks that he joins, may re-roll failed rolls To Hit against Daemons.


Any suggestions on how to pull together a few of those (or any other suggestions) into a playable, fair character?

 

[Pinktaco]

Revive at 4+ is too much, make that something like regeneration 4+ and give him an additional -1 to hit so hit or something.

Multiple wounds D6 is insane lol. How about: exchange his multiple shot rule for one killing blow sniper shot?

So IMO a decent character would have:
- The two rules about having one chameleon skin unit upgraded with several benefits (at a point cost).
- The two rules I mentioned.
- A reasonable price.

 

[hardyworld]

First, I love the idea. Oxyotl deserves to be saved.
Second, no matter how good any idea is coming out of our brainstorming, GW will not implement it in any Errata or even the next (9th Ed.) Lizardmen book. Which is sad to realize.
Third, as far as unit-boosting abilities. I think there is only 1 type that fits Oxyotl's fluff, Magic Resistance. While he is a leader, his legend comes from a solo journey and his rules should really reflect elusive solo sniper that he is.
Forth, Oxyotl should be really hard to kill. I really like your idea of how to handle this with him popping up somewhere nearby after 'death'. Sounds very fitting and more fun than a ward save.
Fifth, shooting damage done, I think multiple wounds (2) per wound inflicted makes sense paired with armour piercing. Although he may have to lose the poison on a 5+ rule in conjunction with that, maybe not since he has a really short range.
Sixth, no anti-daemon stuff is needed. His base resistance to magic is supposed to represent this aspect.

 

[Lizardmatt]

You want to know where he's awesome?
He's Ld7.
In a skink army, he can be the general, and you place him as a scout. That means you can safely tuck the 100 bonus victory points away where your opponent can't get to them.

-Matt

 

[harbinger334]

I like the sniper killing blow thingy how about like some heigtened chaos poisons and like his shots make 1 models as 1 pt lower per hit for a turn like acid or something (forgive me if that sounds insane )

 

[Axolotyl]

Where is he?!?!

using stealth and guile, Oxyotl moves freely around the battlefield to evade his pursuer s and turn them into the prey

During your mandatory move phase, if Oxyotol is in cover and not engaged ib combat, you may move him to the next nearest area of cover within 6 inch, if you do this Oxyotol may still move and shoot as normal this turn, but may not charge an enemy unit.

Devilish disguise!

when threatened Oxyotl's skin changes hue in an alarming pattern and he emits a hiss like that of an angry blood letter, enough to make any would be enemy think twice before threatening him

If a unit wishes to charge Oxyotol, they must first pass a fear test, then, if successful they may charge him minus D3 inches. Any shooting attacks directed at Oxyotol suffer a further -1 to hit if he is not attached to a unit.

Just my thoughts based on his story and actual lizard, without making him an absolute monster, he is designed at present for lower point games

 

[Lawot]

Alright, I like what's going on here!

@ Pinktaco: I actually don't think his 4+ revive is too crazy. Or, more specifically, I think it depends on how powerful we make him. But mainly, I'm thinking that, with only 2W to start with, returning with only 1, and with barely any protection, he still won't actually be that hard to kill.
But I think you're right about Multiple Wounds (D6) being too much...I was picturing some monstrous creature (a War Hydra, maybe) writhing in pain after being nicked by a dart coated in some awful substance from the Realm of Chaos. But I'm thinking that Multiple Wounds is better for this than Killing Blow, as it will synergize with the 5+ Poison

@ hardyworld: I like the idea of Magic Resistance! That seems very fitting. I'm a little torn, though - while you raise a good point about Oxyotl as a solo sniper, the book also speaks of him gathering Chameleons around him to prepare for the defence of Lustria; and in the 6th edition book, his 5+ poison was attributed to his "skill at gathering and mixing toxins"...surely he would share those toxins with a unit of chosen followers?

So here's what I've got so far, then:
Special Rules:
Aquatic, Chameleon, Cold-Blooded, Magic Resistance (2), Scaly Skin (6+), Scouts, Sniper

Master Predator: Oxyotl's shooting attacks automatically wound on any successful To Hit roll of a 5+. In addition, his shooting attacks have the Multiple Wounds (2) special rule.

Oxyotl's Hunting Band: One unit of Chameleon Skinks in the army may be upgraded to Oxyotl's Hunting Band. Shooting attacks made by this unit automatically wound on any successful To Hit roll of a 5+. If this upgrade is taken, Oxyotl must deploy with this unit.

Survivor: Many times Oxyotl's Daemonic pursuers thought him dead, only to feel the bite of his toxic darts again. If Oxyotl is killed, roll a D6 at the end of the turn in which he is killed. On a roll of a 4+ Oxyotl returns with 1W, and may be placed anywhere within 8" of the place where he was killed.

Magic Items:
Sentinel of Pahaux: the blowpipe known as the Sentinel of Pahaux was passed down to the Chief Chameleon Skinks of Pahaux for millenia. It has the following profile:
Range 12"
Strength 3
Special Rules: Multiple Shots (3), Poisoned Attacks.
[because the Golden Blowpipe of P'Toohee is a shameful name]

What do you think? I'm open to more ideas, especially on the unit boost thing. What would be a fair points value for this character?

 

[harbinger334]

I really love the cover hopping idea makes it seem like the green knight ! Maybe he could be a little like the green knight i reckon tho he needs a small bonus vs daemons as he spend so long in the realm of chaos maybe one specific rule vs daemons

 

[hardyworld]

Not a bad start. It would be an improvement to add a cost per model to the upgrade on Oxyotl's unit instead of applying that cost to Oxyotl cost as a Special character. Maybe 140 pts and 3 pts per chameleon skink in his unit (and add that Oxyotl is never allowed to leave his hunting band).

 

[Lawot]

Alright, so I'll amend the "Hunting Band" rule to:
Oxyotl's Hunting Band: One unit of Chameleon Skinks in the army may be upgraded to Oxyotl's Hunting Band for 3 points per model. Shooting attacks made by this unit automatically wound on any successful To Hit roll of a 5+. If this upgrade is taken, Oxyotl must deploy with this unit. In addition, he may never leave this unit, unless killed and resurrected by the "Survivor" special rule.

140 points for the new-and-improved Oxyotl? I'll see what my gaming group thinks!

 

[Rikard]

One I thought of using a while back (rules I made for fun) was "Poison Master", it allowed Oxayotl the option to choose between three different poisons (can't remember if it was before the game, or done by turn), alongside a "expert aim" rule, which mean a 6 to hit ignored armour (the idea of finding gaps in armour in which to land a dart).

Poisons were something like.

Poison 1: +1 strength (without armour modifier) to shots.
Poison 2: unit taking casualties from Oxayotl's poison needed to take a panic test, from the horrific way a member of their unit dies.
Poison 3: Linger, if a character (or multi wound target) takes a wound, roll a die each controlling players turn (on a 5-6 they take another wound, no AS allowed) - though this was a bit too much like Krell's axe.

 

[Nakki]

Alright, I like what's going on here!

So here's what I've got so far, then:
Special Rules:
Aquatic, Chameleon, Cold-Blooded, Magic Resistance (2), Scaly Skin (6+), Scouts, Sniper

Master Predator: Oxyotl's shooting attacks automatically wound on any successful To Hit roll of a 5+. In addition, his shooting attacks have the Multiple Wounds (2) special rule.

Oxyotl's Hunting Band: One unit of Chameleon Skinks in the army may be upgraded to Oxyotl's Hunting Band. Shooting attacks made by this unit automatically wound on any successful To Hit roll of a 5+. If this upgrade is taken, Oxyotl must deploy with this unit.

Survivor: Many times Oxyotl's Daemonic pursuers thought him dead, only to feel the bite of his toxic darts again. If Oxyotl is killed, roll a D6 at the end of the turn in which he is killed. On a roll of a 4+ Oxyotl returns with 1W, and may be placed anywhere within 8" of the place where he was killed.

Magic Items:
Sentinel of Pahaux: the blowpipe known as the Sentinel of Pahaux was passed down to the Chief Chameleon Skinks of Pahaux for millenia. It has the following profile:
Range 12"
Strength 3
Special Rules: Multiple Shots (3), Poisoned Attacks.
[because the Golden Blowpipe of P'Toohee is a shameful name]

What do you think? I'm open to more ideas, especially on the unit boost thing. What would be a fair points value for this character?

I like these rules a lot, although I think they are a bit too strong (especially for 140pts). In general in 8th edition characters are super important and being able to kill your opponents lv 4 wizard by rulling 2 out of 3 5+ darts on turn 1 is a bit too nasty (especially when your trying to convince people to let you play with this guy!).

The only real change I would make is to remove the multiple wounds 2 rule. Otherwise I like him. I think an axe of krell type rule, does and extra wound on a 5+ or 6+ each turn after dealing a wound, would be interesting but he might want to be more expensive for that. I would also say he can't be army general would be reasonable for an assassin, loner, style character. Also in terms of coming back to life I would say he comes back on the next turn (so he can't do anything for the next turn). To generally break down the points as I see them

Skink chief 45 + chameleon 5 + scout 15 + blowgun 15 + extra poison 15 + MR 15 (not worth 30 b/c it must be used on camo skink unit)+ sniper 25 + survivor 30 = 155ish

So I think 140 between all of this is a solid character (i would use him). The double wounds on ranged attacks on a sniper character would be worth 50 points more IMO, but more importantly it would kinda ruin games.

That's just my two cents on the character.

 

[Putzfrau]

i see you guys like your special characters with a dash of filth

 

[gapton]

I am surprised nobody mention this yet, but he should have "Immune to psychology" when fighting against Chaos!

He was sucked into the realm of Chaos, surrounded by a whole universe of daemons. He has the will power and skills to survive that, and he is not going to fear any Chaos army that can fit into one battlefield.

I think it is fitting to give him cause Fear too. Imagine what kind of nightmares you can see through his eyes

Let's face it, even if the enemy unit did suffer from fear, Oxytol isn't going to win any close combat, he is basically dead the moment he finishes his stand-and-shoot charge reaction if he didn't flee.

Also I think his ability to survive is pretty bad as he can be picked off with archers or magic extremely easily. He is also as good as dead once in close combat against most units.

At the end of a friendly movement phase, provided he is alone, he should be able to conceal himself in any terrain (anything except open ground and high ground). Enemy immediately looses LoS and therefore cannot target him with shooting or magic. If Oxytol moves or shoots he immediately reveals himself.

Since it works only in terrain you can never sneak all the way up to the enemy's General without being attacked, but this should give excellent protection and make it fun to place him tactically according to the relative position of your enemy to the terrain Oxytol is hiding in. At turn end, while he remain hidden, on a roll of 4+ he recovers a lost wound.

So you can pop out of a forest, try to snipe an enemy character. If you were not killed immediately you have the option to return to cover and heal up. He only has two wounds to begin with, and you have to remain hidden to be able to heal. In the best case scenario you will be quite lucky to heal more than one wound, so this shouldn't be too overpowered.

Only concern is if Oxytol hides forever the enemy can never get a chance to kill him. But then it is 140 points spent for absolutely nothing.

 

[Kcibrihp-Esurc]

How does hatred Daemons sound?
also with the 'Golden Blowpipe of P'Toohee' why bother giving him a Magical Blowpipe?

Here's my idea okay: give him a normal Blowpipe, his poisons count as magical weapons (for those of you who played in those days think Venom of The Firefly Frog) make it poisoned on 5s and 6s and on a 6 he gets a free shot (similar to Predatory Fighter) he may join a unit of chameleon skinks and shares his poison with them, if he leaves they get one more round of that poison and then it dissipates and if he isn't in a unit then:

At the end of a friendly movement phase, provided he is alone, he should be able to conceal himself in any terrain (anything except open ground and high ground). Enemy immediately looses LoS and therefore cannot target him with shooting or magic. If Oxytol moves or shoots he immediately reveals himself.

Since it works only in terrain you can never sneak all the way up to the enemy's General without being attacked, but this should give excellent protection and make it fun to place him tactically according to the relative position of your enemy to the terrain Oxytol is hiding in. At turn end, while he remain hidden, on a roll of 4+ he recovers a lost wound.

So you can pop out of a forest, try to snipe an enemy character. If you were not killed immediately you have the option to return to cover and heal up. He only has two wounds to begin with, and you have to remain hidden to be able to heal. In the best case scenario you will be quite lucky to heal more than one wound, so this shouldn't be too overpowered.

Only concern is if Oxytol hides forever the enemy can never get a chance to kill him. But then it is 140 points spent for absolutely nothing.

 

[Tlaxbitza]

How does hatred Daemons sound?
also with the 'Golden Blowpipe of P'Toohee' why bother giving him a Magical Blowpipe?

Here's my idea okay: give him a normal Blowpipe, his poisons count as magical weapons (for those of you who played in those days think Venom of The Firefly Frog) make it poisoned on 5s and 6s and on a 6 he gets a free shot (similar to Predatory Fighter) he may join a unit of chameleon skinks and shares his poison with them, if he leaves they get one more round of that poison and then it dissipates and if he isn't in a unit then:

At the end of a friendly movement phase, provided he is alone, he should be able to conceal himself in any terrain (anything except open ground and high ground). Enemy immediately looses LoS and therefore cannot target him with shooting or magic. If Oxytol moves or shoots he immediately reveals himself.

Since it works only in terrain you can never sneak all the way up to the enemy's General without being attacked, but this should give excellent protection and make it fun to place him tactically according to the relative position of your enemy to the terrain Oxytol is hiding in. At turn end, while he remain hidden, on a roll of 4+ he recovers a lost wound.

So you can pop out of a forest, try to snipe an enemy character. If you were not killed immediately you have the option to return to cover and heal up. He only has two wounds to begin with, and you have to remain hidden to be able to heal. In the best case scenario you will be quite lucky to heal more than one wound, so this shouldn't be too overpowered.

Only concern is if Oxytol hides forever the enemy can never get a chance to kill him. But then it is 140 points spent for absolutely nothing.

I totally agree! All sounds reasonable too!

 

[Kcibrihp-Esurc]

We'd need to change Hatred to work at a range, and who said someone who survived the Realm of Chaos would die in close combat? how about

Oxyotl 270 points
M WS BS S T W I A LD (The underscores are to keep the spacing right )
6 _4 _6 _4 3 2 7 3 _7

Equipment
Blowpipe
Hand Weapon
Shield

Special Abilities
Chameleon
Sniper
Always Strikes First
Scaly Skin 6+
Skirmisher (Uses this rule if not in a unit and gains all benefits a skirmishing unit normally gains)
Aquatic
Cold Blooded

Daemon Slayer
Oxyotl has fought The Servants of Chaos in all of their sizes, From Nurglings, to Daemonettes, to Daemon Princes and even Greater Daemons, even in close combat, and survived...

Oxyotl rerolls all failed to hit rolls -ranged and shooting- against Daemons he also rolls a die for every successful hit against him, before wounds are rolled, on a 3+ the hit is discarded.

Survivor
Many times his pursuers thought him dead, but would be proven wrong when they felt the sting of a blowpipe dart, followed by the burning pain of the poison and then darkness...

If Oxyotl is ever taken out of action roll a single D6 the next turn, on a 6+ he returns with 1 wound, if failed on the following turn roll again lowering the result required by one, so if he failed first turn he would need a 5 the turn after, followed by a 4, then a 3, the 2 and finally automatically returning to play.

If he has not returned by the end of the game the opponent claims his victory points
If he was the General and he 'dies' the rest of the army may no longer use his Inspiring Presence and the opponent gets the additional Victory Points for killing the General.

Master Hunter
Oxyotl has always been subtly... better for lack of a more accurate word than his kin, his time in the Realm of Chaos has honed his natural talent to a razor edge allowing him to shoot with great accuracy and speed over distances unattainable by his kin...

Oxyotl fires his blowpipe as if it had a 18" range rather than 12 and long range for him is actually 2/3 of his maximum range E.G His range is 18" so instead of being at long range at 9" away he's at long range 12" away instead.

He can choose to fire 4 shots with an additional -1 penalty to his rolls to hit (So -2 for multi Shot), 3 shots with the normal -1 penalty and Armour Piercing, or 1 shot with no penalty and no armour saves allowed

Ultimate Toxin Mixer
The vile poisons Oxyotl brews are a mix of poisons gathered in the Realm of Chaos, Coatl Tears, and vile Nurgle plants crossed with the most venomous of Lustrian and Southlands Flora, enough to boil a Vampires blood in it's veins, or cause a Greater Daemon to have it's skin melt off...

Oxyotl's melee and ranged attacks are poisoned, if they were already poisoned then they now poison on a 5+
His poisons cause one of two effects, chosen at the start of the shooting phase.
1. Automatically wound causing Multiple Wounds (2) and no Regeneration saves allowed, if he causes an unsaved wound with this poison the unit immediately takes a panic test at -2 to there leadership as their comrade melts from the inside

2. Automatically wound causing multiple wounds D3+1 wounds and if the unit suffers unsaved wounds they immediately take a panic test as a member of the unit writhes screaming that his veins are on fire

Hide in Plain Sight
Many an enemy has been pursuing Oxyotl, hot on his heels, only to find that the prey has disappeared...

Any model that is shooting at Oxyotl is at an additional -1 to be hit, this means that with his Skirmisher and Chameleon special rules he has an overall -3 to hit

At the end of a friendly movement phase, provided he is alone, hasn't marched and doesn't shoot, Oxyotl conceals himself in any terrain that provides cover. Enemies immediately looses Line of Sight and therefore cannot target him with shooting or magic. If Oxyotl moves out of cover or shoots he immediately reveals himself.

As long as Oxyotl remains hidden he regains a lost wound on the roll of a 6, this may not take him above his normal wounds of 2.

 

[Rikard]

Having read the E.T book I do wonder if Oxoytl works better as a character killer fluff wise.

- He knew about the 2nd highest member of the Black 13 long before the master assassin even got into Hexalotl.
- He knew his target (Mazdamundi).
- He was already waiting for him.
- The assassin knew something was wrong, but didn't see Oxyotl until the chameleon skink slid down the pyramid at great speed and shot him only once in the neck.
- He was FAR too quick even for an Eshin master assassin (if we're going off the master assassin rules from the storm of chaos book, then you're looking at an assassin with an Initiative of 8 or 10), shooting him in the neck, even before the Assassin had time to use throwing stars.

- Awesome bit of fluff where it says Oxyotl didn't even wait to see what happened to the assassin after his darts hit, he'd already started to move further down the Pyramid off to his next hunt as the Assassin's body fell down the slope to the ground below.



Makes me think he needs rules a bit like Chakax, in that he has bonuses, such as finding hidden units/characters like fanatics and assassins (e.g any hidden characters within 20 must be revealed).

This could tie in nicely to a buff for his blow pipe, meaning he excels at sniping/character killing (remember he killed a greater demon). Something like his normal blow pipe rules, but something like D3 wounds against characters for ever unsaved wound he causes.

EDIT: Something like poison on a 5+ as standard, but on a 6+, his shot counts as armour piercing (or character re-rolls successful ward saves) and causes D3 wounds.

 

[Lawot]

I like auto-wound on a 5+, D3 Wounds on a 6! That makes a lot of sense to me, as it both maintains the assassin-sort of character that he is, but tones down its effective to something playable. It also functions along the lines of Killing Blow, but doesn't have negative synergy with Poison.
But maybe cut his Multiple Shots down to 2, then?