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The looming excitement that might be TW warhammer II

Paradoxical Pacifism said:
it's just a mention :rolleyes:
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I guess it is better to know. That didn't take to long

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NIGHTBRINGER said:
I haven't played the game yet. I should be getting a new computer soon. I guess I could always just stick with TW Warhammer II; they have the Tomb Kings after all.
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In warhammer 1 the chaos hordes show up and you fight em off (or kill everyone as them)
In warhammer 2 the various factions need to perform rituals, the "good" factions try to stabalize the vortex, the skaven try to blow up the moon & the dark elves try to stabalize it while also murdering everyone. The tomb kings are sorta off to the side ressurecting nagash cuz reasons.

So it's not as bad as the proper books.. at least whatever you like is now canon as you can just play that faction and defeat the others :p
 
Canas said:
In warhammer 1 the chaos hordes show up and you fight em off (or kill everyone as them)
In warhammer 2 the various factions need to perform rituals, the "good" factions try to stabalize the vortex, the skaven try to blow up the moon & the dark elves try to stabalize it while also murdering everyone. The tomb kings are sorta off to the side ressurecting nagash cuz reasons.

So it's not as bad as the proper books.. at least whatever you like is now canon as you can just play that faction and defeat the others :p
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As long as the end of the Old World is not a forgone conclusion, I'm okay with it. But if the Old World ends upon completion of the game, no matter what actions you perform or factions you play, then I'll simply skip the the 3rd installment.
 
yah, i think that'll be unlikely since they want all of the races from the other warhammer games on a single campaign map (that has been their goal from the start)

Actually, i won't be surprised if the third game's campaign comprises of bringing about the end times when you're playing as the daemons of Chaos.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
As long as the end of the Old World is not a forgone conclusion, I'm okay with it. But if the Old World ends upon completion of the game, no matter what actions you perform or factions you play, then I'll simply skip the the 3rd installment.
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Nah, if you play for example the lizardmen you stop the moon from exploding I think. Also you have spaceships, though I can't remember what you end up doing with them beyond reinforcing the geomentic web and thus the vortex.

Paradoxical Pacifism said:
yah, i think that'll be unlikely since they want all of the races from the other warhammer games on a single campaign map (that has been their goal from the start)

Actually, i won't be surprised if the third game's campaign comprises of bringing about the end times when you're playing as the daemons of Chaos.
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Technicly that's already what you're doing as beastmen, norsca or chaos hordes in the story campaign. All of em are just out to kill everyone else.

Vampires just conquer everything, and presumably keep some living as lifestock.

Greenskins just have a big party and punch whomever is available, eventually just punching eachother

Dwarfs just stick with eradicating greenskins from the dwarven realms & keeping chaos back

Empire sticks with keeping chaos back and the empire united keeping the old world mostly as is.

Lizardmen stop the skaven and keep chaos stuck in the north.

Skaven blow up the moon (and thus everyone)

Dark elves save the vortex and then use it power to conquer everyone and have free slaves for all eternity to do horrible things to.

Britonia keeps chaos backs and the human lands united keeping the old world mostly as is.

Vampire pirates just pillage I guess. Basicly the same as regular vampires, just with more boats and some legendary sea creature.

Tomb kings ressurect Nagash, then conquer everything.

High elves stabalize the vortex and keep chaos in check keeping the old world mostly as is.

Wood elves grow a tree and keep chaos in check. Depending on how you play you may or may not conquer everything else.

I think that's all the story endings/campaign goals.

The map for having everyone duke it out against everyone doesn't have a story anyway, that one is just your regular paint the map your colour TW campaign.
 
Meanwhile in my High Elf (mortal empires) campaign:

I forgot what is the purpose of the campaign. I know that the "short" campaign ends when I finally catch that last Naggaroth army that is running around on the map somewhere, I already concuered all their settlements (It took me a while until I realized that they not only were strong in the north, they had also settled in the southern jungles).
But I have no clue what will be the goal after that.

Rant: When Archaon and the big chicken dude were still around, everybody LOVED me. And the very turn they both died everyone seemingly lost their minds, with allies suddenly attacking each other and my formerly good diplomatic relationships dropped. I even had to fight two long time allies that suddeny decided they want to fight each other (Brettonia and the Tomb Kings faction in the northwest) despite being in opposite corners of the world and not having anything to do with each other. I tried to prevent the war by not aiding them. They hated me for not choosing a side. Then the TKs attacked me and I had to destroy them. Grrr.....

Now I am barely hanging on, with some of my allies almost hating me. I hope they stay stable and at least don't fight me or each other. I don't want to kill Brettonia and the Empire. I need my armies in the south because the Kemri guys are more and more disliking me...
Good thing is: I have over 140 settlements so I am rich as sh** and every turn I spend ~16,000 gold to bribe two factions.

I own all of Ulthuan, most of the coast between Brettonia and Sartosa, all the Dark Elf lands, almost all territories that formerly belonged to the Von Carsteins or Vampire counts as well as parts of the Empire and basically everything that belonged to Dwarves or Greenskins (I never fought any Dwarves, there are only three or four dwarf cities left which I guard. The Greenskins were basically everywhere in the south and I took all the territories from them.
In the west I own the Vampire coast and right now I am taking all the southern jungles from the Pestilens rats.

I hope the Empire, Brettonia, the Wood Elves and the Lizardmen stay my allies, then I am basically safe. I just don't really know what do do now, except kill everything that fights me. Is there any way to check what I need for the victory in the long campaign?

EDIT:
Tactics-wise I still stick to shooting. My standard stack is:
- Commander (mostly on Dragon nowadays)
- Wizard on Chariot (love the Chariot, infantry cannot stop it)
- 2x Swordmasters to hack through infantry (on walls as well)
- 2x Eagle or Dragon to kill artillery and generally be a pain in the behind
- 2x Artillery to kill priority targets
- 5-6x Archers
- 5-6x Sea Guard

If slots are left I fill up with Tiranoc Chariots or Ellyrian Archers, great for harassment.

EDIT2:
For sieges I rarely build siege towers or so. I just move in with the archers and kill most stuff on the walls, then put the Sword Masters up there using ladders, with the archers following them. From there I kill the rest. I also like to use magic like a chain lightning or so against the stuff behind the walls. The Eagles and Dragons also do wonders against dudes on walls that cannot escape them.
 
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The long-campaign goal is usually something like "conquer 90% of the world + these 3 specific settlements" not sure what exactly it is in the mortal empires campaign, but count on it just being a matter of painting the map your colour. You should be able to check it in the objectives window, there's a second tab for the long campaign

As for your allies getting pissy. While Archeon is rampaging abound the forces of "good" get a trait called defender of order or some such, which makes them all vastly more likely to ally and form a united front. Once Archeon is defeated they lose that trait and start bashing eachothers heads in again. And the more powerfull the player is the more likely the AI is to absolutly refuse to do anything diplomatic. In some of the games this is done with a realm divide mechanic. For example in Shogun 2 at some specific point in the campaign, regardless of what you do, everyone will hate you period. There's only 1 possible thing you can do and that is trigger it earlier by conquering Kyoto.

Also, refusing to join a war when 2 allies start fighting eachother won't stop em. That screen is simply a decleration of "they're going to war now, what do you wanne do?" not a proper negotiation where you can threaten not to join :p

As for siege towers. They're only really worth it if the enemy has loads of ranged firepower and your troops aren't heavily armored and shielded. If they have no ranged troops on the wall, or if you have super heavy troops with shields and simply don't care about being shot, the extra protection becomes negliceable.
 
Meanwhile on my PC:

I finished my High Elves campaign.
In the end there were four factions still left:
- Lothern (me, controlling most of the world)
- Hexoatl (controlling ~15 settlements)
- Last Defenders (controlling ~8 settlements)
- Wood Elves (controlling ~10 settlements)

I could theoretically continue playing and kill them all, but.... meh. At this point I am basically done. I probably was 20 turns ago but continued while it was still fun.

Overall I liked playing the High Elves, although it got a bit repetitive. The army stack I posted above worked for everything the AI threw at me, and from a certain point on I could always bring two armies anyway.
There were a few surprising battles in which I had to fight stronger enemies, especially when my long-time-allies (The Empire) suddenly decided to turn against me, just as I had destroyed all their enemies (Norsca and Vampires).

I must also say that I don't like the (especially late game) diplomacy, the AI just acts irrational. The Dwarves of Karak Zorn had two settlements (All other Dwarves were killed in the Greenskin wars) and I was near those with four full stacks led by level 40 commanders. I killed all their enemies, and in fact I went out of my way to keep them from being overrun several times. And suddenly they declared war on me so I had to kill them.



So I started a new campagin!
I decided to postpone the planned Lizardmen Mortal Empires campaign because I hope for some new content for them soon, so I picked Argwylon.
I played them in TWW1, but only the small DLC campaign, so I never got to try some units.
So far I like them, I am 60 turns in and starting to confederate with Orion and the other Wood Elves, after fighting some Beastmen, Dwarves, Pirates and Brettonians. I play with two mods though, one that removes amber costs for units (I hate that, it made me not play those units at all in my last campaign, as amber is needed for technology and development of cities) and one that makes the outposts (Argwylon don't really settle in conquered settlements, they just build small outposts) a bit stronger. But they never get really strong garrisons despite that.
 
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Those are the general issues that TW struggles with. Come the late game you can take on nearly any opponent fairly easily. And especially in warhammer there's very little unit progression. At least normally you'd eventually have to adapt your tactics a little bit as opponents gained acces to nonsense like catapracts or war-elaphants which you hadn't faced before. Or at least swap out your hastati for legionaires and eventually praetorian guards when you're rich enough :P. But in warhammer this unit progression is nearly completly gone. It's one of the weakest aspects of this game by far (alongside the same relative lack of progression with building provinces). It helps to play on a higher difficulty. The AI cheats more, so you get more interesting stacks and often end up outnumbered. Plus, it often makes for fairly interesting sieges as you get attacked by 4 stacks and only have your 1 defending stack (and garison nowadays) to hold em off.

As for diplomacy, I have never seen a single videogame where diplomacy actually made sense, and in TW games I basicly ignore it apart from occasionally spamming trade deals at every available faction which 9 out of 10 times they reject. But yeah, the later in the game you get the worse this becomes as there's mechanics in place to Ensure people end up hating you. This is mostly done to Ensure the late-game doesn't become too easy. After all, once you have 50 cities and the 2nd strongest empire has say 10 realisticly there's no point for anyone to even attempt to oppose you unless they all gang up on you.
 
Canas said:
Plus, it often makes for fairly interesting sieges as you get attacked by 4 stacks and only have your 1 defending stack (and garison nowadays) to hold em off.
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Ok I am happy I haven't tried harder difficulties then, I would most likely not win those fights. I am not very good at RTS games.

....I might have to try another TW game at some point. I'd like to have one in the late medieval period but I think those are pretty old by now.
 
Aginor said:
Ok I am happy I haven't tried harder difficulties then, I would most likely not win those fights. I am not very good at RTS games.
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Practise makes perfect. Plus as long as you understand basic tactics, like not charging headfirst into a pikewall with your cavalry you'l generally do a lot better than you'd expect. My personal pet-peeve with the higher difficulties is that the game doesn't have seperate difficulties for combat & the campaign. And keeping up with the campaign AI cheating like a madman and constantly flinging doomstacks at you is a pain when you're still trying to scrape out an empire. Especially in Warhammer where the "progression" means certain key-units are locked behind high tier buildings resulting in weird early game armies (e.g. lizardmen can't really form a coherent army without big dino's, which are late game units). Nothing is quite as annoying as the AI rushing say artillery, and you have yet to unlock any cavalry.

Aginor said:
....I might have to try another TW game at some point. I'd like to have one in the late medieval period but I think those are pretty old by now.
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Mediëval II is some 10-15 years old now I think.
Atilla is recent-ish, and still supported I think, but I don't like that one very much.
Rome II is fairly good, especially with mods and still supported. But wrong era I guess.
Thrones of Brittania I haven't played so wouldn't know, but it's also a tad too early I guess.
That's the most recent medieval-ish ones.
 
Btw a question:
When I merge two units that have had casualties in a battle, and they have different ranks, I assume the lower one is the resulting rank for the merged unit.
Is that correct?
 
Aginor said:
Btw a question:
When I merge two units that have had casualties in a battle, and they have different ranks, I assume the lower one is the resulting rank for the merged unit.
Is that correct?
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I think it usually takes the higher rank, but I rarely if ever do it. Replenishment goes so quickly that it's never really needed, unlike in some of the older games where you had to actually spend money for replenishment. Used to also be that if a significant chunk of a unit got killed you could lose ranks, but I don't think that mechanic exists anymore either.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
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hehe, though it replacing the 3rd game is uhm, let's say unlikely. I could see them putting it out as an eventual sequel.

Though to be honest, Total war should just make up their own fantasy universe for their fantasy games.. That way they can include actual unit and building progression far more easily. TW warhammer suffers heavily from the wonky progression due to the armies all being based of the tabletop instead of a historic progression. Certain armies late-game units are basicly just core to their strategies.
 
Canas said:
I am aware :p just saying I'd probably like it as a genuine game on its own.
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I have to admit that he had me going for a couple of seconds.


Maybe they will come out with it after the Total War: Warhammer trilogy is done. It would make sense since this currently trilogy has done so well for them (or so I've heard).
 
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