The following is still subject to change, but we're giving you an insight to how things will likely be. Sneak Peak #1 Croxisaurus Ancient (hero) Croxisaurus Ancient M6/WS4/S5/T5/A4/I3/W4/Ld8 Special Rules: Coldblooded Strider (Water) Born Predator Scaly Skin 4+ Equipment: Hand Weapon Upgrades: Great Weapon Halbard Light Armour Shield Other options: May take 50pts Magic Items May be BSB Sneak Peak #2 Skink High Priest (lord) It wasn't hard to add the following, but it was hard to ignore the other option we had. We all wanted the Skink Raptor Riders and this could especially be seen on your votes and the Votes on Lustria Online! But unfortunately circumstances dictates that they will not be part of this update. However, they're still very much on the minds of the Committee and various ways to add them in a future update have been suggested. As a part of making Slann-less builds viable there was a greater need for a Skink High Priest. This in return allow us for a greater diversity when creating lists and give us something else than always auto-including the Slann because he used to be the only lvl 4 wizard. Skink High Priest M6|WS2|BS3|S3|T3|W3|I4|A1|Ld7 Cold-blooded, Scaly Skin 6+, Strider (water), Magic Beacon Magic: Level 3 Wizard. Generate spells from Path of Beasts, Heavens, Light or Life. Options: May become a Level 4 wizard May take Magic Items:Up to 100 pts May take a mount (one choice only) Skink Palanquin [may take any options] Triceratops [may take any options] Threehorn [may take any options] Alpha Pteranodon Skink Palanquin Special Rule: Palanquin (50x50mm) Options: May get Plaque of the Snake God (only available if no Anurid High Priest is in the army) May switch Base Size to 40x40mm free Plaque of the Snake God Bearer’s unit has Hatred. The Palanquin allow the skink to be placed in the secon rank of a unit. Sneak Peak #3 Spinosaurus (rare) M7|WS4|BS4|S5|T5|W5|I2|A4|Ld6 Ridden Monster Base size: 50x100mm Unit size: 1 Equipment: Javelin (Crew only), Scaly Skin (4+) Special Rules:Cold-Blooded, Light-Footed, Magic Beacon, Poisoned Attacks (Spinosaurus only), Born Predator (Spinosaurus only) Options: Upgrade Skink Rider to a Wizard Conclave Champion (Lvl 2) The Spinosaurus may get Predatory Roar The Spinosaurus may take one of the following Shooting Weapons: Poisonous Breath Spit Poison Light-Footed A Monster with this special rule only does D3 Stomps instead of D6. Predatory Roar Once per game all friendly units with the Born Predator special rule within 12” of a model with Predatory Roar may re-roll to hit rolls of ‘1’ and ‘2’ in close combat. This ability can be activated at the start of any close combat phase and will last for that one close combat phase only. Poisonous Breath: This is a Breath Weapon with the Toxic attacks special rule. Spit Poison: This is a shooting attack with the following profile: Range 8”, Quick to fire, Poisoned Attacks, Strength 6, Multiple Wounds (Ordnance), Armour Piercing (3). Sneak Peak #4 Army Magic Items Magic items are always an important part of the armies identity, and no change with our dear reptilian creatures. So many different comments were made on which magic item was necessary for the uniqueness to stay intact. We hope that you feel like we mannish this by these items presented here, we at least feels that they are a well document and fairly interesting bunch to have in the mix. Naturally not everything could be accept by the Rules Team and rightly so, but we got mainly what we bargained for. With out further a due: Magic items Light-sabre: Magic Weapon. Type: Hand Weapon. Strength +1, Armour Piercing (1), Multiple Wounds (2) Triceratops War-Spear: Magic Weapon. Type: Lance. When using the weapon, the wearer has Impact Hits (2D3), which are resolved at Strength 6. Cannot be taken by flying models. Tyrannosaurus Hunting Bow: Magic Weapon. Type: Short Bow. Range 18". The Tyrannosaurus Hunting Bow can be shot using the rules for Bolt Thrower Artillery Weapons: Strength 6, Armour Piercing (6), Multiple Wounds (D3). Triceratops Helm Magic Armour. Type: none (6+ armour save). Grants wearer +1 Toughness and Impact Hits (1). Staff of Mending Enchanted Item. Bound Spell (Power level 3). The Staff of Mending contains the path of White Magic spell Apotheosis. Flaming Aura of the Ancients Talisman. Attacks against wearer's model suffer -1 to hit and wearer’s model has the Flameborn special rule. Black Cube Arcane Item. One use only. Instead of making a Dispel roll, you can use the scroll. The spell is automatically Dispelled. In addition you may choose to end all spell effects which Lasts one Turn or Remains in Play affecting a unit within 18”. Ancient Plaque Arcane item. Once per magic phase, the wearer may reroll a single power dice rolled after a casting roll. You cannot use this when casting with 1 dice or to re-roll natural rolls of ‘6’. Esoteric Egg Enchanted Item. Wearer has a Breath Weapon (strength D3+2, Magical Attacks), that can only be used in close combat. Sun Tzu's Standard of Know thy Enemy: Depending on your opponent, Bearer's unit benefits from the enemy's army specific special rule as well, see list below: Dwarfs (DH,ID): Bearer's unit gains Relentless and Thunderous Charge Men (Koc,EM): Bearer's unit gains Ward Save (6+) in close combat and Ward Save (5+) against artillery weapons Elves (EoL,EoD,EoN): Bearer's unit gains Supernatural Reflexes Chaos (DL,WoW): Pick one enemy unit with a Mark of the Dark Gods. Bearer's unit gains that Mark as well. Undead (ED,VC): Bearer's unit gains Lethal Strike Beasts(RE,RoU,BH,OT,GH): Bearer's unit gains Fear and Impact hits (1) Bare in mind that certain magic items are still up for debate, but we reckon this will be fairly close to the final outcome
I realize this isnt much of a news to you guys, but this is the first sneak peak with more to come. I'll try and ask if the krox hero can't have I2 and 5A since he's also W4. Can't make any promises. What you see there is what is currently on the table.
Im not sure why people seem to want a krox hero so much. Could it make a krox star more viable? Would it be good with skink/krox cohort and would the hero also benefit from "skink" to-hit ward. If so, then there would be some idea behind this hero. He of ourse should bring something to the table what a scarvet could not, right? Also will therre be a skaly skin on the smaller rex mount?
No scaly skin on tyrannosaurus. He currently strike a good balance between offence and defense for the price. With 4W the krox hero is a very good tank. We need him because the executive board is pushing hard for competitive armies without a Slann. The krox hero will be a very good alternative BSB and give some more variation in our rather limited hero selection.
I'm curious as to why you think it's a step in the wrong direction? A large amount of this community and T9A community want this - votes show us that. A Kroxigor hero will allow us to have more choice and flexibility in a Hero selection that is otherwise dominated by cowboys and a scroll caddy. On top of that The Executive Board have been after the Slann a lot. They want to see more viable options not consisting of the Slann. A Kroxigor BSB would allow for a very good BSB Caddy. Skink Chiefs will hopefully also be more viable once the magic items have been looked into.
As long as this does not mean, that the Slann get made worse just to make other options move viable. Honestly unless we get better magic options (i.e. other higher level casters), then even with a Kroxigor BSB option, the Slann would still be an auto include. As an army we will need a lot more than an extra Kroxigor BSB if they want us to stop using a Slann in the competitive meta. After all our army is basically built up around the fact that we need to use magic to boost them.
The committee is trying out several things to make the other options more attractive. The Slann will not go down in power, but needless to say it's a delicate matter because as you said our army have been made to work with magic in mind. This is also something the committee is very aware of and why they're pushing hard not to see unreasonable nerfs to the Slann. Disciplines have been a very debated issue. Truth of the matter is that the Slann will likely always be a very attractive option, however, other options should be at least as viable.
I wasn't a big fan of the Krox hero, but if they're pushing for no-slann lists I'd say a Krox lord would be good as well. And tell the board that if they want Slann-less lists to make my freaking Oldblood builds possible again! I usually run dual mounted Oldbloods in a block of 50 Saurus but my favorite loadout is illegal now due to the point increases for magical items (Sword of Anti-heroes, Talisman of Preservation and Glittering Scales). Or just give us back Glittering Scales at 20 points dammit, let the softskins have their heavy armor. Grumble grumble, rant over. But yes, back to my point, Skink themed armies will need a lord to replace the Slann. I don't like the idea of a level 4 Skink caster, so either a Krox lord (maybe a level 2 caster himself to save him fitting the same combat-monster role as the Oldblood?) or a Skink High-Shaman with an optional Pteradactyl mount would be cool. Actually wait... or a Spinosaur mount! Make the Spinosaurus a fast moving debuff/enemy magic nullifier and it would actually become useful. No, I did not think before I started typing, it's 4:30 am, leave me alone.
Several things have been done to make slann-less builds more feasible, although it's still to be seen whether or not the Executive Board will give us the thumbs up.
So the easiest option is obviously skink priests who can be a lv 4 with access to different lores, but maybe some outside the box thinking is needed. So this might be far out there but maybe a zoat like wizard ? Comes at lv 2 can be upgraded from there, i know its not been in our fluff but he would be a duel threat fighter /wizard who could be running around with our krox with access to life and and maybe one more lore. It would add something different and exciting in my opinion.
The main problem I have with all these changes is that when people get a chance to have a say in what happens all lore and fluff is thrown out the window because people look for options that are either 'cool' or 'more viable'. It's an issue that I think GW was heading towards recentltly where they though all armies should have the same options. They did it in their LotR game and then they started doing it to WHF. Armies are different for a reason. When you start giving them new toys so they can be just as viable in different parts of the game it distracts from the unique feel of the army. For example, when Chaos was given the Hellcannon it went from a no-artillery army which relied on tough troops and CC to being able to compete with cannons - I thought this was terrible as the whole lore and every story about Chaos was on how they got u p in your face and mulched you (with some magic support). When Empire got Demigryphs I started to turn off from Fantasy. Yes they looked cool and they were damn effective but Empire isn't supposed to be about monsters - they are an infantry based army with powerful warmachines and a variety of weapons - with some cavalry support. It would be like giving Bretonnia a Great Cannon because they had to be able to deal with monsters. I actually liked what they did with Bretonnia - keeping them focussed on knights but giving them fluffy tools to deal with things that were dangerous to them (HKB to take out monsters who would otherwise rip through their armour for example). Fluff-wise, Lizardmen are an army of cold-blooded dinosaurs, backed by the most powerful casters ever to have existed. They rely heavily on close combat, with monsters as their speciality, whilst lacking in any significant long range or high strength shooting. THIS is what the army should be and on the surface a Krox hero would seem to fit. But it doesn't. Kroxigor were the workers - the heavy lifters who can barely keep a grasp on their weapons in battle and have to have them chained to their arms so they don't drop them. There has only ever been one Krox who was special (Nakai) and not only does making Krox heroic BSBs, it also detracts from the one special Krox there is. We already have amazing options for BSBs - Saurus heroes are tougher than almost every other hero in the game. People don't HAVE to take a Slann BSB - they just choose to. A Krox hero for BSB is unnecessary and un-fluffy. That's what I don't like. In order to design the Lizardmen army you should go back to their roots - Army bbooks from 3rd/4th/5th edition. Use fluff and unit and hero ideas from there. Keep the army focussed on saurus (the fighters) with skinks (weak fighters/scribes) as support with new dinosaurs added to provide necessary roles where needed but ONLY what fit with the army (I.e. don't make a dinosaur that shoots S10 canon balls). Slann should be the masters of magic and dominate where chosen but be too expensive for small points games. Skinks should be able to be lvl 4 (I would prob limit to heavens unless Sotek themed army) as there is no reason in fluff why they shouldn't be up to the ability of a human wizard. That would give a lvl 4 option cheaper than the slann and allow the slann to be designed as masters of magic. In short - army design shouldn't be based around what people think they want or what they think it needs. It should be designed around what it SHOULD have - with additional rules/effects added to allow them to be used viably. I can expand on this more if you need me to - I've rushed it a bit as I'm on my way out for the day, but I posted a proposed army book for Lizardmen ages ago that should still be in the house rules section and that would show what I think was more of the direction Lizardmen should take.
That's why I've made it myself With the exception of magic items, I've rewritten the BRB rules, Lizardmen book, High Elf book, Wood Elf book, Empire book. I've got most changes I want finished for Dark Elves, Tomb Kings, Bretonnia, Dwarves and Vampire Counts. The others I will do when someone wants to play them - it only takes a day or so per army to make the main changes. I don't expect to see it used outside the 3-4 people I play with but that's fine as they are the only ones I play! It's made the decision to focus on 30k GW a lot easier
I guess you are right in some way... If the armies are to similar according to units and tactics it will only be about the look of the models and different names for the same kind of units. It's true that in earlier editions armies used to be far more different from each other then today. I first started in 5th and know the days when there were only skinks and saurus and some times a salamander or some terradons and a single stegadon in lizardmen armies. Very fluffy armies where there. Very nice and you sometimes realy had to think about how you can get rid of a shooting army, while you were playing a cc army and stuff like that. But your fluff argument against a krox hero is a bit weak. Due to the fact that tna has it's own fluff and so does not have to keep gw fluff in full consideration... Now my thumb hurts cause I'm writing on the phone and am not used to write such long texts this way.
just a thought what about making relic priests other than lord kroak a thing? also monstrous cav mount for saurus? or possibility of having a skink priest/chief mounted on a krox like the skaven bonebreaker? could give the option of a cheapish hardcore caster for small games, or a really solid melee character that varies a bit from the saurus as you have suggested. little master blaster action is always welcome!
I'd be interested to know why you found my reasons against a krox hero a bit weak. To me it seems that a) there is no need - not only do we have tough-as-nails saurus but also slaan. Not many other armies have a lord choice bsb. b) kroxigor are brute force workers, not leaders/heroes. No intellect just dumb brutes. c) They barely manage to keep a hold of their own great weapons so being in charge of a standard makes no sense. d) the only kroxigor ever mentioned as special is Nakai. If you're set on a rediculously ott bsb then make nakai a special char with a rule that makes him act like a bsb. e) Not really relevant but would prefer the option of having a new Dino as a mount for a hero that acts as a bsb - something like a hadrosaur
I concur with talocofxhotl on almost all accounts (the exception in this thread being that I don't think a skink priest should be able to be a Lvl 4 mage). But since I am unimpressed by the direction of The 9th Age, my opinion matters little. I'm just going to play with 8th Ed. rules with my own added 'improvements' to help renew the freshness of Warhammer. I fear my favorite part of playing Warhammer (the Grand Tournament scene) is about to die now that it's a 'dead game'. I'm fading away only because the game has faded away first. Now I'm just alone with my models.