The Ultimate Middle-Earth SBG Thread

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Subpar compared to the Battle of Pelenor fields. They could have gone easterlings and dwarves to capitalize on their earlier releases this year but instead they do this!

That would honestly have been so much better - GW could have finally replaced those horrendously expensive Forge World Iron Hills Dwarves with some plastic ones released first through this box and then later on their own. It's a pity the models for old Dain and Thorin III were Forge World, because they could also have been saved to be released in plastic in the boxed game.

We could have got:
Dain Ironfoot and Thorin III in plastic
24 new plastic Iron Hills Dwarf Warriors (especially if they had customisable Spear, Mattock or Crossbow options)
6 new plastic Iron Hills Goat Riders, or a plastic version of either the Iron Hills Chariot or Ballista

vs

The Dragon-Emperor of Rhun (if he had been made in plastic)
12 Easterlings
12 of the new Black Dragons or Dragon Cult Acolytes (if they had been in plastic)
6 Kataphrakts

Something like that would honestly have looked great, I would have considered buying that, but instead they want everyone to buy into the human factions and consign all of the actual fantasy races to Forge World

 

[Lord-Marcus]

Looking for a new project?

The wargames Atlantic late Roman legionaries boxed set, with the addition of a head from the wargames Atlantic goblins set, make convincing orcs.

Both sets used in this conversion are available in my wargames Atlantic section, with individual sprues also available separately.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Looking for a new project?

The wargames Atlantic late Roman legionaries boxed set, with the addition of a head from the wargames Atlantic goblins set, make convincing orcs.

Both sets used in this conversion are available in my wargames Atlantic section, with individual sprues also available separately.

View attachment 119824

A nice idea, though GW already have good-value plastic Mordor and Morannon Orc boxes for standard Middle-Earth Orcs, so there's not much reason why an Evil player would want to go a different route, unless for some strange reason they really didn't like the way the Orcs looked in the PJ films and prefer the Angus McBride illustrations upon which the WA Goblins are based.

 

[Lord-Marcus]

Apparently what an AI program made from the term "Gondolin".

I fucking love it.



Also a client sent in this shot of some elves he bought from me.

 

[Lord-Marcus]

So, these are the wargames Atlantic Romans. But I keep thinking that, with an appropriate color scheme and white tree, they could masquerade as Gondorians

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

View attachment 121907 So, these are the wargames Atlantic Romans. But I keep thinking that, with an appropriate color scheme and white tree, they could masquerade as Gondorians

If you're not specifically interested in replicating Gondor from the films and just want a representative of Gondorian troops from the books, then possibly.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Remember my guides to converting Middle Earth models that are otherwise overly-expensive and lacking in poseability if one goes via the 'official' route? Well @ChapterAquila92 has given me a lead into making some of my ideas much easier to facilitiate.

Unreleased Miniatures has been making all sorts of metal and resin models and bits for Middle-Earth-themed races and factions. Though their unit packs of three figures are still a bit too expensive to be practical for forming Warbands, their individual character figures are a lot more affordable than GW ones, plus the jewel in the crown is the range of shields and heads they make for converting Middle-Earth models.

For instance, my idea of using Galadhrim Elf Warriors as Elves of Rivendell:

And once again I believe it's high time for another conversion discussion - today, it's High Elf Warriors:

High Elves are in a weird spot - on one hand they have some OK plastics, but they're bundled in with some Numenoreans as part of the Last Alliance set - if you're interested in collecting them too and building an allied force, then great, buy a couple of boxes and augment the High Elf contingent with the set of Finecast ones shown above and the Numenoreans with the metal spearmen and bowmen. However, if you just want a Rivendell army, or are intending to ally them with someone else, then you're not going to be getting as much value for money as you could be (in particular given the expensive cost of the four Finecast ones with shields).

But what to do about alternatives? On one hand, there are 3rd party sources that 3D-Print LOTR High Elves, definitely, but again while these are affordable in small numbers, building an army of them gets expensive. A far more cost-effective alternative lies in the High Elves' woodland cousins, the newer plastic Galadhrim Warriors:

These chaps are incredibly similar to High Elves - similar-looking armour, almost identical-looking shields and helmets that aren't all that different. Indeed even GW themselves acknowledge their similarity - certainly in the post-2012 pre-Middle Earth Lord of the Rings Free Peoples sourcebook, the only thing that differs between the two units is a point of Defence (and curiously it's the High Elves that have the higher Defence, despite the Galadhrim clearly wearing more armour). Thus these plastic models make excellent conversion fodder for High Elves. If you have little to no ability to model with Green Stuff, you could easily just purchase some 3D-Printed High Elf heads (I definitely know somebody makes these, though I can't tell you who off the top of my head), decapitate the Galadhrim and give them the alternative heads, or if you're willing to have a stab with modelling putty, just snip off the Galadhrim 'horn' crests and model the ornate High Elf crests on the crowns of the helmets. I don't think many gamers would bat an eyelid at either approach, in particular if it's just a fun, casual game, and the second method could also allow you to play at GW events to boot (as all you're doing is greenstuffing a GW model).

However, if you really want to make sure they look like High Elves and not upset any die-hard LoTR fans, then it's a simple matter of also greenstuffing over the plate mail skirts to look like cloth, and if you're really brave (and patient), try sculpting the High Elf 'ribbed' armour over the Galadhrim breastplates (perhaps filing or clipping off the ridges of the breastplates beforehand to stop the 'ribs' from bulging out too much).

I myself certainly plan to have a go at this method one day to make some High Elf infantry to join my Rivendell Knights, once the latter are built. I got some greenstuff for Christmas and I'm at a loss for knowing what to do with it first!

Is now much easier to achieve with the packs of Rivendell Elf heads and shields they offer:

Not to mention that the icing on the cake is that the Galadhrim Elves are a bit more multipart than most of the Middle-Earth plastics, with both their heads and shields being separate from the bodies:

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

And similarly, my idea of using Fireforge's Stone Realm Dwarves as Iron Hills Dwarves:

All right, I thought it would be time for another of my conversion guides for building Middle-Earth models on a budget!

Today, it's easily the most notorious of GW's Forge World rip-offs, the Iron Hills Dwarves!

I'm a big fan of these chaps, and the main reason why I like the Hobbit films more than the Lord of the Rings trilogy, which by contrast focused too much on humans (not a flaw with the films specifically but with the story as a whole), but was really disappointed when GW postponed making models for them until they could make them in expensive Forge World resin and stick a dirty great price tag on them that forces you to sell a kidney if you want an army of them.

However, recently Fireforge has come to our rescue, with the release of their Stone Realm Dwarves plastic boxes. First up, the Iron Hills Warriors with spears can be replicated easily with the Stone Realm Warriors:

The kit contains two of the first and second sprues to allow you to make 12 Spear-armed Dwarves, enough for a full Warband. The Command Sprue supplies options for a Banner and War Horn, plus some additional legs which can be interchanged with those on the first sprue, or can be made into another four Dwarves if you buy the resin head and torso upgrade pack, which contains twelve additional torsos that are enough to do this three times:

My only concern is that most of the heads have round helmets rather than the flat angular ones worn in the film, but if you're experienced in casting like @Warden you could easily make more of the latter, or, given this is fantasy and it doesn't matter at all if you're playing games that are not in a GW Hobby Centre or tournament, you could just make do with adding some round-helmeted heads as well for variety. Similarly the shields are not exactly the same shape as those in the Hobbit films, being more like those of Bretonnian Men-at-Arms, but either you can reshape them with clippers and added greenstuff, or just keep them as they are and leave them to imaginative reinterpretation.

The same can be achieved for Warriors with mattocks and crossbows by buying the Hammerers or Crossbowman boxes respectively, which replace the spear and sword sprue that comes with the warriors with this heavy weapons sprue:

Or this crossbow sprue:

Each of these again contains enough to make 12 mattock or crossbow-armed Dwarves just with that box and with some additional bodies can take the numbers up to 16.

All of these sets cost just 20 euros, which is about £17, compared to just shy of £50 for 12 GW Iron Hills Dwarves with spears and £88 to make the same number with Mattocks or Crossbows. There really is no contest.

Additionally, Goat Riders can be replicated with the Rambukk Raiders box, which gives you two of these rider sprues:

And two Ram sprues:

The body halves are all interchangeable with each other which is top-notch, meaning you can have 9 different ram poses, and you also get another of the foot Dwarf Command Sprues in this kit meaning you can make another 4 foot Dwarves with some of the spare rider torsos and heads!

The only thing is with this box is that most of the heads on the rider sprues have been designed to resemble knights, but these can easily be replaced with spare heads from the infantry boxes. You get 6 in this box again for the price of £17, compared to £110 for 6 from Forge World. You'd have to be either extremely rich, desperate to play at GW shops and tournaments, mad or a mixture of the three not to consider this a valid alternative.



However, I don't imagine it would be too difficult to find plastic or 3D-Printed chariot and ballista models elsewhere, using the Rams from a Rambukk Raiders box to pull the chariot and crewing both with some of the bonus infantry models you get from all the Fireforge plastic boxes.

Can be made all the more a reality by swapping the Fireforge rectangular shields that come with the Stone Realm kits for these metal Iron Hills-style ones:

Plus offering a pack of two Goats:

So that if the Fireforge Rambukk Raider riders fit, these can be used to make Goat Riders while the Fireforge Rams can be saved to serve as the steeds for a chariot proxy if you can find one.

 

[Lord-Marcus]

That should work, given the size of the rams.

The last alliance heads and shields are nothing new. Mainly, When I was still taking 3D printing orders last year before I paused: I got a lot of requests for medbury miniatures Shields and heads.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Not long ago I heard from the owner of my newest local FLGS that Middle-Earth will allegedly be getting a new Edition (presumably some time after the upcoming Arnor scenario book). To be honest I don't see why that would be necessary (unless it's another revised edition that simply collating all the FAQs released over the past couple of years together) as of course a lot of people say it's the most balanced it's ever been, but one thing I would like to see is a change in army selection rules.

I know I've mentioned it before, but for the benefit of those who weren't around at the time of the thread's early posts, the one thing I really do not like about the SBG in its current state is the 'Warband' method of army selection, where you have to take a number of heroes plus Warriors alongside them, and that you can have heroes without Warriors but not Warriors without Heroes. This format first appeared in February 2012, in an attempt I believe to introduce more restrictions for competitive play (as part of a set of five Lord of the Rings Sourcebooks specifically designed for more competitive play than the previous sets of Sourcebooks), but I really think it did this the wrong way, principally because it reeks of GW wanting to push more hero models.

However I've not thought of an alternative until now.

I've lately been reading up all I can on the long-lost version of the SBG called War of the Ring. Released in April 2009, it essentially embodied a separate version of the SBG into a rank-and-flank wargame inspired in part by Warhammer Fantasy while also basing a lot of its mechanics on the SBG. I only ever got to play it once at my nearest Games Workshop, but it was a lot of fun. Sadly it seemed to lose steam and vanish by late 2011/early 2012 down to balance issues and it competing with Warhammer Fantasy and requiring more models than the latter to play, but I still keep thinking about it and wanting to have another go at it. I've even found a revised version of it called War in Arda, pioneered on the One Ring forum, that adds in rules for all the Hobbit units and factions and reduces the number of models required to have a good game of it.

One of the things I like a lot about War of the Ring is its army selection rules, based around Warriors rather than Heroes as it should be:

• Formations of Warriors are divided into Common (run of the mill troops), Rare (elites) and Legendary (special formations headed by special characters, probably the inspiration of Legendary Legions in the current version of the SBG).
• Your army can contain any number of Common formations, but no more than half your points can be spent on Rare formations.
• Your army can also contain any number of Heroes and Legendary formations, so long as each Hero or Legendary formation is only taken once (can't have multiple versions of the same character running around... looking at you Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes).

It's probably a pipe dream as the current Middle-Earth team are as obsessed with the Warband format as they are with pushing the four main factions of the Lord of the Rings trilogy over every other army, but if there were to be a new edition, I'd love to see the Warband format scrapped and replaced with the War of the Ring version as follows:

• All Warrior types are divided into Common or Rare
• Your army can take any number of Common Warrior models or Heroes (so long as each hero is only taken once)
• Up to half your points (or models perhaps, as per Bow Limit) can be spent on Rare Warrior models
• Keep the existing rules for Bow Limit and Legendary Legions (whatever the existing rules for Legendary Legions are, @Imrahil it'd be great if you could confirm).

Simple but an effective way of stopping armies from being filled with elites, and stopping players from being forced to buy and convert a load of Heroes.

If they did this it'd really encourage me to get back into the SBG.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Some interesting new model reveals for Arnor and Angmar have surfaced in the past day...

Warriors of Carn Dum, i.e. Rhudaur:






I never thought GW would go so far as to make some of these... I like the stag antler helmets, and I certainly admit that Slaine-esque Drune models are in short supply... though these still are a bit too close to the generic barbarian archetype, and thus the Dunlending Wildmen, for my liking. But these are Forge World anyway so if I want some of these I can source models from a plastic kit more to my liking.

Aldrac, Warlord of Carn Dum:

Same as above... a great model for fans of Slaine and Drunes, but still too much of a Conan feel to him for my liking entirely.

Fraecht, Vassal of the Witch-King:

I do like this chap a bit more, not least for his creepier feel, the generous application of crow feathers and bones, and because he, along with Aldrac, form a twisted reflection of Arvedui and Malbeth. But again he'll be Forge World, boo.

Aranarth, First Chieftain of the Dunedain:

Good to see Arvedui's son get a model, and good to see Arnor have another hero... it certainly needs them while the 'Warband' army list selection format continues to exist and suck...

The Shadow of Rhudaur, a Barrow-Wight hero:

A new model for Burhdur (why, given it'll be Forge World and no less expensive than the metal original?):

Hill Trolls to accompany their Chieftain (a much more necessary release - again Forge World and expensive, but you could easily source third-party Cave Troll models and drape them in Green Stuff clothing):

And Werewolves:

Not particularly fond of these, principally because they continue to follow the naff hyena look of the Lord of the Rings Wargs rather than the superior more wolfy Hobbit Wargs - we can see where GW's favouritism lies once again. But Mantic make some far better Monstrous Infantry-size Werewolves that will look far better and probably cost less.

Anyway, some interesting stuff here, particularly for Angmar... they've done a good job at adding a load of new and different stuff to separate it from Mordor, Isengard and Azog's Legion.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

They've also announced the Rise of Angmar book that will contain the rules for those models (with probably the blandest cover image yet):

Plus a new Edition of the game:
https://www.warhammer-community.com...iddle-earth-strategy-battle-game-coming-soon/

It does make me wonder why, but the one thing that would make me seriously consider diving into it is if they rework army selection and finally get rid of the horrible 'Warband' format - a pipe dream as I mentioned before, given the development team and a lot of the playerbase for the current version of the game are perfectly fine with it, but I can live in hope for a means by which I can finally fix the mess that my own Middle-Earth collection is in, as it is currently comprised of a hotch-potch of rulesets and models from different factions. For many years I've largely ignored its plight in favour of my Fantasy, 40K and SPQR collections, but a polished new edition of the game with a sensible set of army selection rules would certainly persuade me to change that.

Also, they've not-so-subtly teased that GW are going to make models for the upcoming War of the Rohirrim animation. I thought this was going to be another Amazon abomination but not so, it's a New Line Cinema development that's going to maintain faith toward PJ's visions. I do rather wish it was live-action instead, as more people would take it seriously then, but it's a nice touch to have Miranda Otto reprise her role as Eowyn for the purpose of narratrix. More importantly, it stands as an inclination of where GW's loyalties lie... fully and entirely with New Line Cinema and Peter Jackson, and not in the least with Amazon's attempts to defile Middle-Earth, which is a very good thing. There is at least some sanity left in GW HQ it seems.

 

[J.Logan]

I've not played ME:SBG, but that warband format you mentioned definitely seems like a put off. But when even a friend who is absolutely done with Gee-Dubs agrees that the ruleset is one of the best that they've ever released, I can't imagine that they'll drop it. Though the idea of the book giving an alternate ruleset for less hero-centric gameplay would be nice. But with the release of the Old World, it's going to hit the same problem as War of the Ring rules, GeeDubs will end up competing against itself. Again.

Now, some of those new models? I want. Even if I never actually play ME:SBG, I like some of those models enough that I will quite happily have a few for alternative purposes. Aranarth in particular I can imagine integrating into my proxy Empire Army for the Old World. Make him a captain. Fraecht I can turn into a wizard. And if I ever start an Undead army, that barrow-wight is on the list.

 

[Imrahil]

I wasn't aware of Carn Dum and their people, but the models look decent, not that I will buy any of them anytime soon. The wizard looks fine and will be able to be used as stand in for other factions as well.

I like the new Dunedain and Barrow Wight heroes. They look pretty good.
The extra trolls make for some great diversity in an all troll army

Not a real fan of the werewolves.

I was happy woth the MESBG rules set as it is, but seeing the releases over the last couple of years bundled in one book is something good.

Hope not much will change gameplay-wise

Grrr, !mrahil

 

[J.Logan]

Not a real fan of the werewolves.

Were werewolves a thing in the Silmarilion? Because I do not remember werewolves being a thing in LotR. I suppose an argument could be made for werebears considering what's-his-face in The Hobbit, but otherwise...

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

I've not played ME:SBG, but that warband format you mentioned definitely seems like a put off. But when even a friend who is absolutely done with Gee-Dubs agrees that the ruleset is one of the best that they've ever released, I can't imagine that they'll drop it. Though the idea of the book giving an alternate ruleset for less hero-centric gameplay would be nice. But with the release of the Old World, it's going to hit the same problem as War of the Ring rules, GeeDubs will end up competing against itself. Again.

Yeah, I honestly don't know why people keep saying the SBG is the best GW ruleset ever when I loathe the 'Warband' format so much, and I know very well it's just a pipe-dream that they might drop it. Perhaps it's simply because I first got into the SBG before February 2012, at a time when the game was more designed for narrative play and any army configuration was legal so long as you had at least one Hero as your leader... and as soon as February 2012 and the first sourcebooks detailing the 'Warband' format came out, I found that I had to buy a load more (expensive) hero models just to make my army legal, and since then my interest in the SBG just petered out. I still picked up Escape from Goblin Town and a few other Hobbit models as I liked the films so much, and played a few games at my nearest GW, but other than that I just let the Warhammers take over a lot more of my spending and time, and have been a salty sod where the SBG is concerned ever since

With regards to an alternative, note in one of my previous posts on this page that I've suggested not to bring back War of the Ring as a whole (though it was a great idea, it's not economical due to the nature of plastic kits having 8-10 models of each different weapon option with no options to kit all models out with one option, and as you mentioned it will compete with Fantasy again), but simply bring back War of the Ring's army selection system and fold it into the few sensible restrictions that currently exist in the SBG - I'd like to think this produces a whole lot more of a flexible selection system than the 'Warband' format, allows for both Hero-oriented and Warrior-oriented forces and still includes enough restrictions to stop players cheesing particular builds:

• At least one Hero (you have to have one as your Leader after all)
• Any number of Heroes and Legendary Legions per army, but only one of each individual character/Legion
• Warriors are divided into 'Common' and 'Rare' - 'Common' Warriors are core troops and can be taken in any number, while 'Rare' Warriors are elites and only up to half your points can be spent on them (which will also stop players doing dick moves like fielding a Mumak in small 400-500 point games, which I've had before in the few games I've played against random people using the 'Warband' format and as far as I'm aware is still legal)
• Bow Limit as per standard SBG rules

Were werewolves a thing in the Silmarilion? Because I do not remember werewolves being a thing in LotR. I suppose an argument could be made for werebears considering what's-his-face in The Hobbit, but otherwise...

I'm sure they are somewhere in the mythos, either the Silmarillion or elsewhere, because they are mentioned in Tolkien bestiaries. I don't remember them in the Hobbit (though of course there are the Beornings, Beorn chief among them, which already have models). They just play a relatively small, obscure part in lore.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Here's a post from a little while ago giving some teasers on what's coming in the new Edition of the SBG:
https://www.warhammer-community.com...edition-of-middle-earth-strategy-battle-game/

A lot of it is decent actually... the new Intelligence stat makes sense, removing Special Strikes I think is a good thing (as thematic as they were, I always forgot about them and they added an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy to combat) and Legendary Legion-style army lists seems to be taking the game back to pre-Feb 2012 in terms of having a lot more smaller lists, with multiple different lists for different eras of the same faction, rather than a few larger ones, which I think is a smart move with all the recent new models expanding niche factions such as Dunlendings, LoTR Erebor and most recently Angmar and Arnor. Fight values being spread out over a wider range is a good thing and will reduce the regularity of tied Fight results. Three army list books to collect rather than two is a bit of a pain, but again I can see why it's being done with all the expanded factions, and the Legendary Legion-style army lists makes that much easier to facilitate. No mention of the shite Warband format going though, boo. I'll still keep an eye out on how the revised ruleset plays, and it'd be a good opportunity to return to the game, but whether I will pick it up, I don't know yet.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Remember when I mentioned North Star released some plastic Orc Infantry for Oathmark, that I thought would work well as Mordor Uruks?

Finally North Star have decided to give us a preview of their plastic Orcs for Oathmark, which are due to arrive next month:

These chaps look substantially bigger, bulkier and less hunched than North Star's earlier Goblin sculpts, which themselves still make good alternative Mordor Orc sculpts.
Meaning the new Oathmark Orcs above could easily make great Mordor Uruk Hai, which currently are only available as a pack of six metal models from GeeDubs:

The sprue contains enough weapons to equip all the models with bows or hand weapons and shields (I'm unsure if spears are an option for Mordor Uruks, but if they are then there's enough of those on the sprue too), plus plenty of banners if the option is available, and while the two-handed mace option is not present in the box set, the Oathmark Dwarf Heavy Infantry have a lot of two-handed weapons, some of which are hammers, that can be pillaged to give to some of your Uruks a bit more oomph. Additionally if you can find some Warlord Games Roman scutum shields, these chaps will make more convincing and formidable Black Guard of Barad-dur conversions in the style of the original idea I posted here. And of course the value of this kit will go without saying - you'll most likely get 6 of these sprues in the box if the other Oathmark infantry boxes are anything to go by, so 30 models, for only £1 more than buying the 6 metal models from GW.

All in all, a kit with real potential for Middle Earth players and another very welcome addition to the Oathmark range.

Well, now they're about to release a set of Orc Heavy Infantry, which look even better as Mordor Uruks - not only are they all the better-armoured than their 'ordinary' cousins, but they also have the golden option of two-handed weapons, which Mordor Uruks are especially known for being able to take:

These lads will look great alongside GW's Mordor and Morannon Orcs, or, if you want to fully go with the Oathmark range which are a lot more customisable, Oathmark Goblins will work well as Mordor Orcs, and the aforementioned Oathmark Orcs could work better as Morannon Orcs, certainly in terms of options available in their box set.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Well, I've found a Middle Earth profile creator that allows you to create your own Hero and Warrior profiles and save them in a card format:
https://websim.ai/c/LOu1LxKee1tHeBAgW

Let the tide of fan-made units begin

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

The first two of my fan-made cards - for Cardolan Militia as a lighter infantry unit for Arnor, and Hillmen of Rhudaur as a light human unit that can serve either in Arnor or in Angmar armies, to reflect that troubled province's divided loyalties: