40K - Should I .... or not? Where to start?

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

I'll just give you a recap of, The war in Heaven. 60 million years ago, the Old ones ruled the galaxy. The Old ones were masters of genetic engineering and psychic powers. The Old ones weren't alone in the universe, many other alien empires existed and the Old ones uplifted them to their technologi level and lived in harmony. It wasn't everybody who saw the Old ones as benevolent givers, no, a sinister and miserable people called, the Necrontyr were jealous of the Old ones. The Necrontyr were ignored by the Old ones, because the Old ones saw the hate and jealousi in the Necrontyr, so they chose to ignore them, hoping their misery would be the end of them.

When the Necrontyr had build a major empire, they declared war on the Old ones and all their vassal species. The war had major casualties on both sides, but it was evident that the Old ones were going to win. During this war, the Old ones created the Elder and the Krorks. the ancestors of the Orks. A Krork is basically an Ork that has human level intelligence and strategic thinking.

When all seemed lost for the Necrontyr, they noticed a being orbiting their home star, sucking the very energi from it. The Necrontyr contacted this being, and realised it was a being of unlimited energi. The greatest sceintist of the Necrontyr created their ultimate creation, a suit of living metal that the being could reside in. More of these beings came to the Necrontyr an had body's made to them. An so the C'tan were born. The C'tan has feasted on stars ever since the Big bang, but when the Necrontyr gave them material form, they realised that Souls tasted so much better. The C'tan were masters of the material universe, creating blackholes on a whim, ripping holes in reality and causing quasers to extinguish.

The C'tan promished that the Necrontyr could win the war, but at a price, which the Necrontyr gladly accepted, but quickly regretted it. The C'tan created titanic engines of matter-conversion, that striped the soul and flesh and turned a person into a machine that couldn't be destroyed, scared or beaten. So the Necrontyr had died and the Necrons were born, with the laughter of hungering gods echoing through the void.

So the war in heaven began...

With their newfound power, immortality and the help from beings that can manipulate the material realm to their wishes, the war quickly turned in the Necrons favor. The Old ones were on the Backfoot, they couldn't kill the Necrons anymore and many of their allies and creations were going extinct. But they still had one big advantage, their psychic powers. The Necrons, and C'tan were incredibly vulnerable too psychic powers, but this ended up being their doom.

Before the Warp became the Warp, it was "the realm of souls". A place were all souls ended up to spend eternity in bliss. During the war in heaven, the Realm was overloaded. So much death, hate and misery was raving the galaxy, and the realm couldn't handle that, it was corrupted beyond all repair. The Realm of souls was no longer a place for harmony and peace, but a twisted reflection of the galaxy that corrupts all it touches. When the Warp was born, the Old ones and Elder practically went extinct because the psychic backlash was so great. The war was almost over, and the Silent king, the High lord of the Necrontyr, saw the error of his way and realised that he had doomed his kind and the rest of the universe. he plotted in secret with his greatest generals and scientists to destroy the C'tan. When the war was over, the Necrons turned on the C'tan, unleashing their most potent weapons of destruction. The C'tan were shattered, but not before breaking the Necron empire in a thousand pieces.

With the galaxy a lifeless wasteland, the Silent king ordered the Necrons to a great slumber, to hopefully never wake again.

Damn, i went all in on this.

What @Captaniser has missed out here is that the Necrontyr were fighting amongst themselves and it was the plan of the Silent King to declare war upon the Old Ones to get all the warring Necrontyr Dynasties to unite against a common enemy, not just because the Necrontyr disliked them. This worked until the Old Ones began to win the war, and then the Necrontyr started to fight amongst themselves again. The C'Tan then proposed a deal that if they gave the Necrontyr new power beyond their previous understanding, the Necrontyr would help them to destroy the Old Ones. The Necrontyr accepted not knowing that they would be enslaved by the C'Tan as soon as they went under biotransferance. As soon as they became Necrons the Necrontyr then rebelled against the C'Tan and broke many of them into Shards and destroying one of them entirely (I forget his name), before retreating into their Tomb Worlds and beginning the Great Sleep.

In the old codex (which is the one I used when I fielded my necrons back in the day), the C'tan were in charge. Most of the origin story remains similar, but the Necrons never had an uprising against the C'tan, the C'tan were not defeated by the Necrons and the C'tan were not reduced to shards. The C'Tan did have a "civil war" of sorts between one another, as they consumed each other. Eventually only 4 C'tan remained (Nightbringer, Deceiver, Void Dragon and the Outsider). Of the four only the Nightbringer and Deceiver were active. The Necrons themselves remained slaves to the C'tan, and were unified under them (no dynasties/factions).

This is the old codex I speak of:

In the codex (written by Matt Ward) that followed the one pictured above, the Necron's lore was retconned and changed to the one you are familiar with. Personally, I hated the change. Firstly, I love the C'tan (no surprise there), and was hoping to get the remaining two added (only the Nightbringer and Deceiver had rules) in the new codex. I was extremely disappointed (maybe only a shade less than AoS or Jar Jar level disappointment) to see that not only were the remaining C'tan not added, but the C'tan were reduced to shards. Secondly, I loved the idea of having the Necrons exist as a single unstoppable force. There was something menacing about that idea; an ancient and forgotten enemy that represented an overwhelming threat. I loved the old fluff, and could never accept the new one. I started into this hobby with Necrons and I loved them. I have many great memories with them, and I was sad to see the fluff I enjoyed so much flushed down the toilet.

Even though I prefer the new Necron fluff, I don't see why there couldn't still be Necrons that are still under the command of the C'Tan and still remain loyal servants to them, perhaps the Necron Enslaved or a similar army like that, who hate the Necron Dynasties who mutinied against their masters and aspire to claim all the C'Tan shards and reform them into the original Star Gods. Just because someone at GW decides to change everything, doesn't mean that you need to follow them. I ignore the bollocks GW introduced in 8th Edition 40K about Hive Fleet Leviathan failing to devour Baal - I think the Tyranids would have slaughtered the pathetic Blood Angels, stripped their measly planet of biomass and sent the few survivors packing any day of the week, and as far as I am concerned, that is what happened - Tyranids win, Blood Angels lose. I still play Fantasy whenever I get a chance, regardless of any temptations towards AoS. Resist the darkness of GW's lore and make up your own! You could make an unofficial army book or something that's more similar to 3rd Edition Necrons and say that these Necrons are out to enforce the will of the NIGHTBRINGER!

 

[Aginor]

The Nightbringer:

Nice picture!
Who are the spider dudes?

 

[Killer Angel]

The Nightbringer:

Old B&W pictures still mantain a fascinating style...

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Nice picture!
Who are the spider dudes?

Canoptek Spyders - Used to spawn Scarabs constantly and fix Necron Vehicles.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Even though I prefer the new Necron fluff, I don't see why there couldn't still be Necrons that are still under the command of the C'Tan and still remain loyal servants to them, perhaps the Necron Enslaved or a similar army like that, who hate the Necron Dynasties who mutinied against their masters and aspire to claim all the C'Tan shards and reform them into the original Star Gods. Just because someone at GW decides to change everything, doesn't mean that you need to follow them. I ignore the bollocks GW introduced in 8th Edition 40K about Hive Fleet Leviathan failing to devour Baal - I think the Tyranids would have slaughtered the pathetic Blood Angels, stripped their measly planet of biomass and sent the few survivors packing any day of the week, and as far as I am concerned, that is what happened - Tyranids win, Blood Angels lose. I still play Fantasy whenever I get a chance, regardless of any temptations towards AoS. Resist the darkness of GW's lore and make up your own! You could make an unofficial army book or something that's more similar to 3rd Edition Necrons and say that these Necrons are out to enforce the will of the NIGHTBRINGER!

I agree with you. You know me, I am definitely not afraid of abandoning GW's path and going my own way. Heck, I have a bunch of characters in my own personal lore that prevent the end times and kill the deity that is essentially GW.

As for Necrons, I hadn't played them in a long time because I transitioned into Fantasy. When I heard they were finally getting a new book, I was pretty excited and was contemplating getting back into them. When I saw the lore shift, I lost interest and just stuck with Fantasy. The lore shift would not have been enough to make me quit 40k, but it was enough to persuade me not to get back into it. Truth be told, I've always felt Fantasy to be the better game. That and I was really getting sick of all the Space Marine overload. All the other races just started to feel like minor characters.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Canoptek Spyders - Used to spawn Scarabs constantly and fix Necron Vehicles.

Actually back in that codex from which the picture is taken from they were still under their old name: Tomb Spyders.

 

[Aginor]

So the Necrons are Tomb Kings in space? That's..... brilliant but kinda lame at the same time.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

So the Necrons are Tomb Kings in space?

Pretty much! A Tomb King + Terminator hybrid.

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Actually back in that codex from which the picture is taken from they were still under their old name: Tomb Spyders.

True, but the picture also appears in the 5th Edition codex I have and I use my Tomb Spyder models as Canoptek Spyders.

At least gameplay wise your army can't phase out anymore...

So the Necrons are Tomb Kings in space? That's..... brilliant but kinda lame at the same time.

Indeed they are, especially with the new lore.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

True, but the picture also appears in the 5th Edition codex I have and I use my Tomb Spyder models as Canoptek Spyders.

Not surprising, GW reuses most of its artwork. I don't play 40k anymore, do Tomb Spyders even exist anymore (as a separate unit) or were they simply name changed to Canoptek Spyders?

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Not surprising, GW reuses most of its artwork. I don't play 40k anymore, do Tomb Spyders even exist anymore (as a separate unit) or were they simply name changed to Canoptek Spyders?

The latter, and the fact that they can now spawn a Scarab Swarm every turn to add to an existing unit of Scarabs. I'm not sure if it is one Swarm per unit or one Swarm per Spyder in the unit, but these swarms are automatically produced at the start of each turn in the nominated unit. The only drawback is that you have to roll a dice for each Swarm spawned and on a 1 the Spyder that spawned it suffers a wound as its power is drained. They can also attempt to fix damaged Necron vehicles they are in base contact with. I don't know if the original Tomb Spyders could do any of this.

I used this once to get my Scarab Swarm unit to beat a unit of 20 Ork Boyz even though they charged by sitting the Spyders behind the Scarabs and out of the combat, so that each turn they could add a new base to the Scarab unit to replace Scarabs that had been destroyed by the boyz in combat.

 

[Aginor]

Ah, so many 40K facts in this thread, thanks to y'all!

Now that we talked a bit about Necrons I'd like to talk about space Orks.
Anyone who wants to recap their story? Especially those bits that might be interesting but not canon anymore. The stuff that is not in the wiki that I am reading now.

 

[Captaniser]

Ah, so many 40K facts in this thread, thanks to y'all!

Now that we talked a bit about Necrons I'd like to talk about space Orks.
Anyone who wants to recap their story? Especially those bits that might be interesting but not canon anymore. The stuff that is not in the wiki that I am reading now.

Ahh, the Orkz. How about we start from the very beginning.

The Orkz are a biological fungus people/weapon that were genetically created by the Old Ones to fight...and win. Before the Orks became the orkz, they were the Krorks. The Krorks were original creations of the Old ones, but without the Old Ones the Krorks devolved into these feral creatures that spread like a plague throughout the Galaxy.

Orcs naturally have an understanding of tech and weapons, albeit highly primitive. They basically know how too swing an axe, pull a trigger, hit the gas and press the big red button.

Orkz aren't the smartest bunch, but they still manage to mass produce assault rifles, rocket launchers and vehicles too no end, but how do they do that?

Some Orcs are called Mekboys. These Orcs are born with complete understanding about how to make all tech work, even things that would seem completely illogical. They can make guns out of scrap metal, tanks out of torched cars and streetlights and beer out of oil and water. These Mekboys also know how fully functional tech from the other races work just by looking at it long enough, but if they got hold of such tech, they would immediately make it more Orky.

Orkz live only too fight, and nothing more. the more an Ork fights, and wins, the larger it grows and the smarter it becomes, the Ork will also start attracting other Orkz. So an Ork who has seen plenty of battle, is nothing short of a force to be reckoned with. There is no feasible end to how large an Ork can grow through fighting, the largest known Ork was just a little taller than a Knight Titan and almost killed a Primarch. Orkz can't live without fighting. Even if an Ork has all the necessary things for living healthy, it will naturaly become bloated and die of organ failure.

Then there is the ´Power of the WAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHH´(POTW). POTW is the Orkz way of manipulating the material universe. POTW gives the Orkz their ability to use Psychic powers, create their machines and make the red ones go faster. When an Ork belives in something, it partially becomes true, if more Orkz believe the same thing, that thing becomes more true. Example: If an ork believes his rocket will cause a bigger explosive because it is painted yellow, it will make the explosion a tiny bit bigger. If 1000 Orks belive that a rocket will make a bigger boom because it is painted yellow, it will cause the boom to become quite a bit bigger. That is also how their weapons work, not because they functions properly, but because every ork in the galaxy believes that that their weapons work.
POTW is also how orkz traverse through the Warp. Orkz concentrate a large influx of POTW onto their ship and enter the warp. You remember when i mentioned how the Emporiums ships travel through the warp, they try too stay quiet and not get spotted, for Orkz it's quite the opposite. An Ork ship is like a huge bear running through a galla party level obnoxious, and their ships usually get swarmed by demons, but Orks kinda like it when the demons come, cause then they can have a little fun while they wait.

 

[Aginor]

Ahh, the Orkz. How about we start from the very beginning.

The Orkz are a biological fungus people/weapon that were genetically created by the Old Ones to fight...and win. Before the Orks became the orkz, they were the Krorks. The Krorks were original creations of the Old ones, but without the Old Ones the Krorks devolved into these feral creatures that spread like a plague throughout the Galaxy.



Orkz aren't the smartest bunch, but they still manage to mass produce assault rifles, rocket launchers and vehicles too no end, but how do they do that?


Orkz live only too fight, and nothing more. the more an Ork fights, and wins, the larger it grows and the smarter it becomes, the Ork will also start attracting other Orkz. So an Ork who has seen plenty of battle, is nothing short of a force to be reckoned with. There is no feasible end to how large an Ork can grow through fighting, the largest known Ork was just a little taller than a Knight Titan and almost killed a Primarch. Orkz can't live without fighting. Even if an Ork has all the necessary things for living healthy, it will naturaly become bloated and die of organ failure.

Then there is the ´Power of the WAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHH´(POTW). POTW is the Orkz way of manipulating the material universe. POTW gives the Orkz their ability to use Psychic powers, create their machines and make the red ones go faster. When an Ork belives in something, it partially becomes true, if more Orkz believe the same thing, that thing becomes more true. Example: If an ork believes his rocket will cause a bigger explosive because it is painted yellow, it will make the explosion a tiny bit bigger. If 1000 Orks belive that a rocket will make a bigger boom because it is painted yellow, it will cause the boom to become quite a bit bigger. That is also how their weapons work, not because they functions properly, but because every ork in the galaxy believes that that their weapons work.
POTW is also how orkz traverse through the Warp. Orkz concentrate a large influx of POTW onto their ship and enter the warp. You remember when i mentioned how the Emporiums ships travel through the warp, they try too stay quiet and not get spotted, for Orkz it's quite the opposite. An Ork ship is like a huge bear running through a galla party level obnoxious, and their ships usually get swarmed by demons, but Orks kinda like it when the demons come, cause then they can have a little fun while they wait.

Thanks!
So do I understand that correctly:
A single Ork normally has next to no psykic powers, but many of them together can do some mighty psyking? I mean: traveling through the warp and creating guns and ammo is no small feat I guess.
Impressive. Weird but interesting.

Or are there single Psykers as well (like the Weirdnob guys in AoS for example)?

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

The latter, and the fact that they can now spawn a Scarab Swarm every turn to add to an existing unit of Scarabs. I'm not sure if it is one Swarm per unit or one Swarm per Spyder in the unit, but these swarms are automatically produced at the start of each turn in the nominated unit. The only drawback is that you have to roll a dice for each Swarm spawned and on a 1 the Spyder that spawned it suffers a wound as its power is drained. They can also attempt to fix damaged Necron vehicles they are in base contact with. I don't know if the original Tomb Spyders could do any of this.

Tomb Spyders back in the day could spawn scarabs as well, as long as they weren't in combat. Also on a d6 roll of 1 they would take a wound. Scarabs created would forum a unit with the Sypder.

However, they were not able to fix damaged Necron vehicles. Speaking of vehicles, only the Monolith existed at the time.

 

[Aginor]

Oh and one more thing about the Orks:
They kill demons because, yeah, they kill everything.
But wouldn't those guys basically be Khorne's wet dream? If they die (and if they have souls which I kinda assume) I am sure Khorne would love to claim those doesn't he? Would they become demons and fight for him then?

 

[Lord Agragax of Lunaxoatl]

Tomb Spyders back in the day could spawn scarabs as well, as long as they weren't in combat. Also on a d6 roll of 1 they would take a wound. Scarabs created would forum a unit with the Sypder.

However, they were not able to fix damaged Necron vehicles. Speaking of vehicles, only the Monolith existed at the time.

Wasn't it one of the most powerful tanks in the game originally?

Oh and one more thing about the Orks:
They kill demons because, yeah, they kill everything.
But wouldn't those guys basically be Khorne's wet dream? If they die (and if they have souls which I kinda assume) I am sure Khorne would love to claim those doesn't he? Would they become demons and fight for him then?

Orks are very difficult to mutate unlike Humans, and they don't cover wealth or anything like that either. Also Orks would probably beat up any weird-looking Chaos Orks before long and end up killing them. That's certainly why Genestealer Cults don't do very well when attempting to infest Orks.

 

[Aginor]

Ah ok that makes sense. Thanks!

 

[Captaniser]

Or are there single Psykers as well (like the Weirdnob guys in AoS for example)?

Yes, they are called Weird boyz. Weird boyz are insane, even by Ork standards.

Weird boyz use powerful, and higly unsubtle, psychic powers, these powers get amplified the more Orkz are in close proximity to the Weird boy. Weird boys are as unpredictable as they're deadly and their powers are as volatile as they're dangerous, a Weird boy is as likely to blow his own brains out as he is to blow the enemy's.

 

[Aginor]

Yes, they are called Weird boyz. Weird boyz are insane, even by Ork standards.

Weird boyz use powerful, and higly unsubtle, psychic powers, these powers get amplified the more Orkz are in close proximity to the Weird boy. Weird boys are as unpredictable as they're deadly and their powers are as volatile as they're dangerous, a Weird boy is as likely to blow his own brains out as he is to blow the enemy's.

Even more than a regular Psyker?
Wow that's pretty dangerous I guess.
But then Orks pribably are thrilled by that...

Thanks!