9th Age 9th Age (beta) out now - check link in first post

[skink chief]

My suggestion. My insights are with a perspective of our fluff and of the models themselves (our monsters in particular).
I do not go into points!

Army special rules:

Add Sacred Spawnings: It fits fluff wise and is an excellent way to buff our troops WITHOUT HAVING TO USE OUR MONSTERS FOR THIS (sorry for the caps )! I feel some of you are already clinging on to the +1 WS the new bastiladon gives, this does not make any sense however. If one of the sacred spawnings gives +1 WS then hooray! .

Altar of the Snake God: Change it back to how it was. page 49 of our LM book. Change 1d6 inch to 6inch. Add to the shooting part of the Altar: units hit by the Altar (the snakes that spawn) must take a fear check.
I know the Bastilon causes terror so this is minor, but when not in combat with the bastiladon but with another one of your units, this might change things... Why the change? Because fluff wise this fits much better, poisened attacks can be added in sacred spawnings!

Sun engine: Change to how it was before! +1I does make sense here, as described in our LM book.

Spit Venom: Draw a straight line to the point you want the spit to hit. From there on the spit goes* 3inches forth. All models hit take the Strength 5* hit with AP1. Keep 18'' Str 5* , but lose the multiple wounds, even though I feel it fits to make it do multiple wounds, the way I discribe here for the spit it would be to strong vs some units like Ogres. . AP1 makes just as much sense and keeps it in check a bit.

Frog Disciplines: WE WANT OUR SLANN BACK!!!

Now the Army: Heroes and Lords I skip.

Core:

Saurus:
They are ok, would still like to see I2 on them though, this can also be something added in sacred spawnings ( but who would take such a minor buff), with the old sun engine it does do a lot though. The magic banner is nice work! Add Sacred spawning unit.

Skink Cohort ( brave):
They are ok. The poisened attacks are a nice new thing.

Skink Hunters ( skirmishers):
Why do skink brave now get to take poisen but these guys annot with javelins? Give us the option to take poisen javs even if it costs us points.

Special:

Temple Guard ( Shrine Guard):
The are fine. Add sacred spawning unit.

Snake Swarms:
Move to core.

Chameleons: -1pts per model is nice. wouldn't fit to put them in core fluff wise. They be special ( the models look like they might be in the skink special olympics).

Raptor Riders:
Change Lances to light lances, it makes no sense we got lances. We are not master crafters, we got sticks with pointy ends.. light lance is good enough. Love the magic banner! Raptor get Born predator wich is nice and I'm ok with that , though not necesarry for me.
Make them core with max unit size and max unit enties. This time I go against the fluff that was written in our LM book because I feel it makes no sense. If skinks can ride a ripper, saurus can easely handle a cold one (raptor). Add sacred spawnings

Croxisaurs:
Change to core! They are our builders and have you seen how many frigging Temples we got in our cities? We must have a lot of these big guys, so fluff wise it fits IMO.
Banner, musician were added and I'm iffy about it, if they needed it then by all means.
Give them +1 WS! Why? Ok so they are not blade dancing elves, but have you looked at the size of their weapons? ( so here I'm looking at the model for inserting stats). It takes a dozen skinks to hand them their weapon wich is as big as a friggin saurus ( right out of LM book). Try and dodge a swing of these things when you are in formation and tightly clinging together. You must be some super sayen ( or an elf) to be able to dodge that thing! This would help them A LOT.

Terradon and ripper riders (Skink Sky riders):
OK, if rippers needed the nerf then by all means, I'm not gonna cry. The toad is a loss but , comon a toad that enrages these beasts is kinda weird anyway. Add sacred spawnings for both units.

Bastiladons:
And now to get you all flippin mad at me .
Make them RARE. Yeah I said it! RARE. Why? Because of the things they got on their backs, thats why! (Fluff wise). The Old Ones gave us Altar of the Snake god and Sun engine, I imagine we don't have a lot of them... Also they are not that many points (even with these old engines I propose).
Now model wise: Give them +1 Strength ( making it S5), as said by some this will give it some combat abilities with better stomps. Maybe even give it +1 Toughness altough this might be to much? I would consider this as it is not stubborn, this might help it with that.

Rare:

Salamander: Change them back to how they were!!
Razordon: Change them back to how they were!!! I can handle the Max unit size, but keep the skink handlers ( fluff + model wise).

Spinosaur (Troggy):
Model: Give it Strength 6 (not a carno, but strongk), give it 4 attacks for the love of GOD!
Fluff: Add something magical to it. This is a magical monster. if not that then give it a ward save 5+ like the frost phoenix.

Triceratops:
Like the changes but put it in Special! With this one exeption: EOTG = RARE. Same as with the Bastiladons the EOTGs is very rare so it makes sense. The bow and the blowpipes can be special.

Mounts:
I like the new carno options! The others are ok.

 

[skink chief]

I feel that a lot comes down to sacred spawnings to give us more options and I really hope we can get it true to the 9th age guys. So far everyone wants sacred spawnings I think? That for itself means a lot. Almost all other things were up to dispute exept the Slann issue wich was also pretty one sided. Other armies have multiple weapon choices, armour choices.
With changes to placement (core, special, rare) this list gives us 6 core choices, 5 special choices and 6 rare choices.
Before the beta book most of us were in agreement that our army is fairly balanced and didn't need much change. My version makes less changes but gives more options..

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Ok so they are not blade dancing elves, but have you looked at the size of their weapons? ( so here I'm looking at the model for inserting stats). It takes a dozen skinks to hand them their weapon wich is as big as a friggin saurus ( right out of LM book). Try and dodge a swing of these things when you are in formation and tightly clinging together.

Actually a large heavy weapon would reduce weapon skill if anything. Lighter weapons tend to be far more nimble and easier to handle. The weightiness of the Kroxigor's weapons are represented in the +2 strength that they confer.

That said, I wouldn't argue if Kroxigors were given WS4 , but I don't feel that the fluff justifies it.

if rippers needed the nerf then by all means, I'm not gonna cry. The toad is a loss but , comon a toad that enrages these beasts is kinda weird anyway.

Why is everyone so hard on the bloat toads? They are extremely fun and fluffy. Probably the best bit of mini fluff that GW introduced in our 8th edition book (IMHO at least).

 

[skink chief]

Krox: gets +1 to hit. Because defensivly it doesn't fit that is correct wanted to adjust that last night. Big great weapon would make it harder, unless the monster itself is big and has no problem lifting and handling the weapon wich is the case here. I didn't give krox sacred spawning because I feel it can be abused really hard. Giving them +1 to hit in combat is a weird stat, but myeh. I could see it. If you look at a chaos warriorsgreat weapon, and then at a krox great weapon.. How do you feel about the other changes?

 

[Pinktaco]

I'm quite sure there's a mistake in the Slann disciplines. The text for Universal Knowledge says "Cannot be combined with Focus of Myster".

 

[skink chief]

I'm quite sure there's a mistake in the Slann disciplines. The text for Universal Knowledge says "Cannot be combined with Focus of Myster".

I'm pretty sure they will give us the Slann as he was or close to it (just -1 wound and I can live with that). But how it is now, that is why i wrote the comment there.

 

[Pinktaco]

My suggestion. My insights are with a perspective of our fluff and of the models themselves (our monsters in particular).
I do not go into points!

Army special rules:

Add Sacred Spawnings: It fits fluff wise and is an excellent way to buff our troops WITHOUT HAVING TO USE OUR MONSTERS FOR THIS (sorry for the caps )! I feel some of you are already clinging on to the +1 WS the new bastiladon gives, this does not make any sense however. If one of the sacred spawnings gives +1 WS then hooray! .

I disagree. Gameplay wise this is going to be a crutch. We'd just take +1WS spawning every single time, unless other spawnings were equally good (+1A, +2M, stubborn etc).
Spawnings should IMO not be a direct power boost, but instead be subtle.

Altar of the Snake God: Change it back to how it was. page 49 of our LM book. Change 1d6 inch to 6inch. Add to the shooting part of the Altar: units hit by the Altar (the snakes that spawn) must take a fear check.
I know the Bastilon causes terror so this is minor, but when not in combat with the bastiladon but with another one of your units, this might change things... Why the change? Because fluff wise this fits much better, poisened attacks can be added in sacred spawnings!

6" poison can easily be explain, we dont need an utterly useless shooting ability. Swarms give poison to friendly units so for me it fits the bill that the snakes from the ark give poison to nearby friendlies as well.
Poison as a spawning is yet another very good spawning and a direct power boost.
Anyway I do think we should add on the jungle spawn mechanism and put swams in core.

See the beauty of the bastiladon is that it's limited. It can die and only reach 6" and is very slow moving. Putting those things into spawnings would just permanently give us that with almost no downside.


Sun engine: Change to how it was before! +1I does make sense here, as described in our LM book.

Actually according to fluff initative comes from Tzunki (along with being aquatic). Chotec back in 6th edition granted what is essentially swiftstride. Apparently GW themself did what they wanted with their own fluff. My point is that it's not very true to the fluff to begin with. Regardless the fluff simply states that nearby reptilian creatures becomes more energetic, which can be interpreted in many ways and would actually fit better with the old spawnings (swiftstride).

It's just that I want to respect fluff, but on the same time I'm here for the game <.<

Spit Venom: Draw a straight line to the point you want the spit to hit. From there on the spit goes* 3inches forth. All models hit take the Strength 5* hit with AP1. Keep 18'' Str 5* , but lose the multiple wounds, even though I feel it fits to make it do multiple wounds, the way I discribe here for the spit it would be to strong vs some units like Ogres. . AP1 makes just as much sense and keeps it in check a bit.

Frog Disciplines: WE WANT OUR SLANN BACK!!!

Now the Army: Heroes and Lords I skip.

Core:

Saurus:
They are ok, would still like to see I2 on them though, this can also be something added in sacred spawnings ( but who would take such a minor buff), with the old sun engine it does do a lot though. The magic banner is nice work! Add Sacred spawning unit.

Skink Cohort ( brave):
They are ok. The poisened attacks are a nice new thing.

Skink Hunters ( skirmishers):
Why do skink brave now get to take poisen but these guys annot with javelins? Give us the option to take poisen javs even if it costs us points.

Special:

Temple Guard ( Shrine Guard):
The are fine. Add sacred spawning unit.

Snake Swarms:
Move to core.

Chameleons: -1pts per model is nice. wouldn't fit to put them in core fluff wise. They be special ( the models look like they might be in the skink special olympics).

Raptor Riders:
Change Lances to light lances, it makes no sense we got lances. We are not master crafters, we got sticks with pointy ends.. light lance is good enough. Love the magic banner! Raptor get Born predator wich is nice and I'm ok with that , though not necesarry for me.
Make them core with max unit size and max unit enties. This time I go against the fluff that was written in our LM book because I feel it makes no sense. If skinks can ride a ripper, saurus can easely handle a cold one (raptor). Add sacred spawnings

You can aways call it lustrian spear which grants +2S on the charge because derp reason. Beastmen got same treatment. At any rate your suggestion makes me sad.

Croxisaurs:
Change to core! They are our builders and have you seen how many frigging Temples we got in our cities? We must have a lot of these big guys, so fluff wise it fits IMO.
Banner, musician were added and I'm iffy about it, if they needed it then by all means.
Give them +1 WS! Why? Ok so they are not blade dancing elves, but have you looked at the size of their weapons? ( so here I'm looking at the model for inserting stats). It takes a dozen skinks to hand them their weapon wich is as big as a friggin saurus ( right out of LM book). Try and dodge a swing of these things when you are in formation and tightly clinging together. You must be some super sayen ( or an elf) to be able to dodge that thing! This would help them A LOT.

Eh no to both IMO. Their massive strenght represent them being able to pick up a great weapon. There's no need to modify them. Besides just becaue we have a ton of builder it doesn't necessarily mean that the templecities want to send them all forward unless absolutely necessary. I just find it odd you'd send in your workers. What happens if they all die? Skinks will do their work then? xD

Terradon and ripper riders (Skink Sky riders):
OK, if rippers needed the nerf then by all means, I'm not gonna cry. The toad is a loss but , comon a toad that enrages these beasts is kinda weird anyway. Add sacred spawnings for both units.

Rippers needed the nerf? RIPPERS. NEEDED. T HE. NERF?! If anything all they needed was +1I and that would make them fine, however, nerfing them is absolutely out of the question. Besides you're making this list based on fluff and now you go against the fluff - again - you can't have it both ways mister

Bastiladons:
And now to get you all flippin mad at me .
Make them RARE. Yeah I said it! RARE. Why? Because of the things they got on their backs, thats why! (Fluff wise). The Old Ones gave us Altar of the Snake god and Sun engine, I imagine we don't have a lot of them... Also they are not that many points (even with these old engines I propose).
Now model wise: Give them +1 Strength ( making it S5), as said by some this will give it some combat abilities with better stomps. Maybe even give it +1 Toughness altough this might be to much? I would consider this as it is not stubborn, this might help it with that.

You're right. This is nuts. Go home, you're drunk

Rare:

Salamander: Change them back to how they were!!
Razordon: Change them back to how they were!!! I can handle the Max unit size, but keep the skink handlers ( fluff + model wise).

I agree. Make both as they used to.

Spinosaur (Troggy):
Model: Give it Strength 6 (not a carno, but strongk), give it 4 attacks for the love of GOD!
Fluff: Add something magical to it. This is a magical monster. if not that then give it a ward save 5+ like the frost phoenix.

Triceratops:
Like the changes but put it in Special! With this one exeption: EOTG = RARE. Same as with the Bastiladons the EOTGs is very rare so it makes sense. The bow and the blowpipes can be special.

Mounts:
I like the new carno options! The others are ok.

Read the red text in the quote.

Your fluff perspective reminds me of people who want nothing, but realism in strategic games. I've played plenty of Company of Heroes 2 on PC and visited their forums. There's a clear issue with realism and gameplay, but the developers have to make sacrifices if they want the game to be playable. Otherwise you'd see the map completely filled with cheap, unreliable and untrained Russian tanks.

We have to make this game playable and nerfing rippers, forcing light spears on CoRs and putting Bastiladons into rare might be in the gray area, but that's something we just have to accept otherwise the game becomes a mess.

 

[skink chief]

Ok read it.

About the sacred spawnings and the buffs of the new bastiladon: yes that is why I want them back to how they were and in rare. The sacred spawnings could be: +1ws / poisen attacks/ +1 attack / +1 or 2 initiative and stuff like that. Too strong? Maybe, but if their points match it then why not? For example +2points per model for +1Attack ( block of 40 = 80pts 30 = 60pts 20 = 40pts , seems legit to me the others 1,5pts pm for poisen per model rounded up, 1pnt for +1ws , 0.5 for +1I together with bastiladon thus can work..)). This way you don't need the monsters to be buffwagons.

Lustrian spears: I don't really know if they need +2str on the charge. Our saurus are Str4 wich is more then most cav units.. just adjust their points to make them more playable (but I didn't want to put points remarks). Would you agree on that? Or do you really think we need the +2 str?

Krox in core was suggested on this site and I wasn't against it. Your response is a valid one however. Exept that I do feel like the +1 to hit or ws4 is something they need. Again with adjusted points.

Rippers: I haven't played with rippers yet. This is from what I"ve been reading on this site (some said the nerf was justified). I do not say they need the nerf, I said: if they needed the nerf then ok. I said it this way because of my own lack of exprerience with them. Fluffwise I wiupdnt mind getting the Toad back..

Bastiladons in rare: remember I put steggy back in special even the blowpipes. A more point monster, so actually we have more room to play with in rare. Steg with EOTG's in rare but its a choice you make..

All in all you were fine with the suggestions it looks like to me.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

Krox in core was suggested on this site and I wasn't against it. Your response is a valid one however. Exept that I do feel like the +1 to hit or ws4 is something they need. Again with adjusted points.

Personally I would love to see krox in core independent of Skrox units. Our core selections are pretty limited so I'd love to see them bolstered. I'm not claiming that Krox should be core, only that I'd personally be happy if they were.

I'm just not seeing the justification for +1 to hit or WS4. WS4 to me seems indicative of weapons training or innate skill. Many of the models with WS4 or more are trained in military combat and weapons training; Kroxigors are builders. Kroxigor are dimwitted creatures that are extremely slow of mind, so WS3 is fitting. If you wanted to give them a boost (with an associated points increase of course), I'd say toughness 5 or regeneration (5) would be far more fitting.

 

[skink chief]

Ok I get the point . Thx for the feedback.

 

[Lord Grok Of Xillaqua]

Question:

There's been lots of talk on this page about the new 9th age rules about what they "should" or "could" do with our army, but has anyone actually PLAYED the new rules yet or is all this talk mostly speculation, wish-listing and additional recommendations? I only ask because I'm more keen to hear about play testing within our community at this point (since that is the purpose of most betas anyways).

 

[Pinktaco]

@skink chief Yes I believe CoRs are to be S4 with +2S on the charge. EVERY other heavy cavalry unit got the same threatment, why shouldn't we? We already suffer from I2 and if we want 1+ armour save we have to pay 10pts as it is now. On top of that they're WS4. Compared to them Dragon Princes recieved S4 so they now have WS5 with +1 To Hit and I6. They'll be hitting on 2+ before anybody else. That's not to mention their greater mobility (M9 vs M7 with stupidity).

Pip Hamilton on the other forum gave a very interesting and good suggestion on how to create spawnings:

Tactical Role: Mobile Attack Unit
Spawning of the Sun Resplendent: Swiftstride
Spawning of the Jaguar Warrior: Ambush

Tactical Role: Rough Terrain Fighters
Spawning of the Jungle Stalker: Strider(Water, Forest)

Tactical Role: Shock Attack Unit
Spawning of the Serpent God: Frenzy
Spawning of the Dread Hunter: Cause Fear

Tactical Role: Dispel Battery
Spawning of the Arcane Alignment: The unit may assist dispel attempts as if it were a level 1 wizard.

Tactical Role: Anvil
Spawning of the Great Protector: Scaly Skin (4+) (note this doesn't let Oldbloods get a 3+ scaly skin!)
Spawning of the Inexorable One: Immune to Psychology

I've told him maybe to consider -1Ld with the frenzy rule and +1I on the strider one. What makes me happy about his suggestions is that they're not just a straight up power increase and still allow for some interesting solutions that makes our saurus warriors much more viable.

I can't remember seeing anyone seriously talk about nerfing rippers. If they did they should be banned haha just kidding of course. Again rippers should just have +1I on the mounts and they'd be very good.

I don't think I can be bothered about discussing the bastiladon in rare suggestion. I understand your perspective - you want to follow fluff - and I respect that, but the second reason doesn't really do much for me. at 2400pts we have 600pts allowance in rare. I don't think switching the monsters around will do a whole lot in that regard, but that is just me.

 

[Pinktaco]

Question:

There's been lots of talk on this page about the new 9th age rules about what they "should" or "could" do with our army, but has anyone actually PLAYED the new rules yet or is all this talk mostly speculation, wish-listing and additional recommendations? I only ask because I'm more keen to hear about play testing within our community at this point (since that is the purpose of most betas anyways).

No the rules just release a few days ago. I'll hopefully be play-testing this week. I'm trying to set up games this thursday and for the weekend.

 

[Lord Grok Of Xillaqua]

No the rules just release a few days ago. I'll hopefully be play-testing this week. I'm trying to set up games this thursday and for the weekend.

IC. I've been off of L-O for a bit because classes got back in but I'm getting a couple of friends to test them out with several different armies (wood elves, dwarves and bretonnia). We're most keen on testing the new magic rules in particular.

 

[skink chief]

I like the spawnings that buff troops more for 2 reasons.
1. Chaos warriors for example, look at what they can change with weapons and armour... they got so many options to buff their troops.
2. Putting the buffs on our monsters doesn't make much sense to me and personally I would really hate to play my army like this. That's me personally ofc...

 

[Pinktaco]

weapons aren't the same as spawnings. We should compare spawnings to marks if anything. Regardless WoC are an close combat oriented elite army so what they have is fair IMO.

The intention with both the bastiladon and troglodon was to be support monsters to begin with. That was GWs call and that's what fits the fluff you're promoting. A +1I is still a buff regardless. Also do keep in mind that I wouldn't mind seeing S5 on the bastiladon with a slight price increase. Mostly so that the thunderstomp is better.

Here's how I see it: bring in carnosaur in rare. Split up stegadons again. That would give us:
2 buff monsters.
2 versatile monsters (the stegadons)
1 damage dealer monsters.

That's 5 monsters with a lot of variety

 

[Yrtomin]

Question:

There's been lots of talk on this page about the new 9th age rules about what they "should" or "could" do with our army, but has anyone actually PLAYED the new rules yet or is all this talk mostly speculation, wish-listing and additional recommendations? I only ask because I'm more keen to hear about play testing within our community at this point (since that is the purpose of most betas anyways).

This.
Sometimes i feel we are just talking about the models and not getting anywhere.
Im going to save myself until i have played more with the new rule book.

 

[skink chief]

Ok now i see where you are coming from. We look at it a bit different in that regard. I do think we are a combat army. 4 phases: movement: not really for us but the spawnings you say would help that + terrain play. Magic: we got that, though it seems bit by bit they want to take it away somewhat. Shooting: not for us, all our shooting is too close range. CC: I feel that is something for us, SW are made for fighting, we got monsters etc...

As for the monsterbuffwagons*. Ok if the solardon gives +2I I could see that. If the snake thing gives poisen attacks then ok. But definatly not +1WS. Makes no sense for me and is not ever going to make sense for me.

I also have a game coming up vs gobbo's we will test the rules and magic but not the army books since we feel they have been done to swiftly. We would just get annoyed about the armies, too much has changed to even begin to say this was good this was bad.

 

[NIGHTBRINGER]

I do think we are a combat army. 5 phases: movement: not really for us but the spawnings you say would help that + terrain play. Magic: we got that, though it seems bit by bit they want to take it away somewhat. Shooting: not for us, all our shooting is too close range. CC: I feel that is something for us, SW are made for fighting, we got monsters etc...

You mean 4 phases?

Movement
I think Lizardmen can be a very quick moving army...
Core: skink cohorts, skink skirmishers, skrox
Special/Rare: Terradons, Rippers, Kroxigor, CoR, Stegs, Salamanders, Razordons

We're definitely not the quickest army out there, but we do have quick army builds at our disposal

Magic
This was perhaps our most dominate phase, but I agree with you that it has slowly been stripped away. If the Slann change in the Beta holds true, then our dominance is completely eradicated.

Shooting
Our close range shooting is amazing, but nothing of note at longer ranges.

Close Combat
We can definitely pack a punch, especially our cowboys!

As for the monsterbuffwagons*. Ok if the solardon gives +2I I could see that. If the snake thing gives poisen attacks then ok. But definatly not +1WS. Makes no sense for me and is not ever going to make sense for me.

I agree that fluffwise the +1 WS boost from the Bastiladon doesn't make much sense. While I disagreed with you on the point of kroxigors having ws4, I definitely feel that Saurus warriors would be justified in having it (as part of their base stats, not from a buff). These guys are spawned for the sole purpose of combat. I2 would be welcomed as well.

 

[skink chief]

Yeah 5 phases was a typo .